Prop 63

[kemasa]

Also, the sales tax question comes up again for this.

I believe Sportsman Guide collects sales tax already, so that is not an issue with them.

[Dutch3]

We are not looking forward to it, moving thousands of rounds of ammo everyday makes my back hurt just thinking about it.

We will be doing it but IMO we are not going to be cheap. Factor in how many times you will have to move said boxes, store boxes and the fact that like guns people do not come in for just 1 or right when it gets to you means we all will be shuffling heavy boxes around. Imagine the guy ordering ammo from multiple websites and wanting to get them all at once.

Not going to be doing this for $10....

It sounds like CA DOJ will determine what the fee is.

30312. (a) (2)...The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the
transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice...


I read somewhere that $10 is the flat fee they are considering.

[taperxz]

It sounds like CA DOJ will determine what the fee is.

30312. (a) (2)...The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the
transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice...


I read somewhere that $10 is the flat fee they are considering.

That might be a processing fee for ammo purchased in store. Not a handling or storage fee. This is not the same as a ppt. It's more like a dealers transfer for out of state buying.

[kemasa]

$10 per round, box, crate, or pallet?

The exemptions don't include a licensed FFL, but does include those exempt from the CFD.

The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title.

And just what is the CA DOJ's fee?

[johnthomas]

From a business standpoint, i would prefer to sell my customers their ammo and price competitive, instead of incoming cases of someone elses ammo.

From a business standpoint, 711 sells lotto, brings in all kinds of business that would otherwise not go. This may be a chance to get more people in the store that otherwise may not even know his business is there. As an FFL, this may be a chance at lots of firearms transfers from sportsmans guide.

[Dutch3]

That might be a processing fee for ammo purchased in store. Not a handling or storage fee. This is not the same as a ppt. It's more like a dealers transfer for out of state buying.

I don't think it is an 'in store purchase' fee. But not sure what any additional fees might include.

"(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall
deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction. The ammunition vendor shall then
promptly and properly deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, if the sale is not prohibited, as if
the ammunition were the vendor's own merchandise. If the ammunition vendor cannot legally
deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, the vendor shall forthwith return the ammunition to the
seller. The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the
transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable
fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title."

[kemasa]

That might be a processing fee for ammo purchased in store. Not a handling or storage fee. This is not the same as a ppt. It's more like a dealers transfer for out of state buying.

Actually, it is a transfer for ammo, much like a PPT.

Penal Code - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370]
( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

TITLE 4. FIREARMS [23500 - 34370]
( Title 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

DIVISION 10. SPECIAL RULES RELATING TO PARTICULAR TYPES OF FIREARMS OR FIREARM EQUIPMENT [30210 - 33690]
( Division 10 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

CHAPTER 1. Ammunition [30210 - 30395]
( Chapter 1 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


ARTICLE 2. Other Restrictions Relating to Ammunition [30300 - 30340]
( Article 2 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


30312.

(a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.

(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction. The ammunition vendor shall then promptly and properly deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, if the sale is not prohibited, as if the ammunition were the vendor’s own merchandise. If the ammunition vendor cannot legally deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, the vendor shall forthwith return the ammunition to the seller. The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title.

(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section and Article 3 (commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4 of this part.

(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:

(1) An authorized law enforcement representative of a city, county, city and county, or state or federal government, if the sale, delivery, or transfer is for exclusive use by that government agency and, prior to the sale, delivery, or transfer of the ammunition, written authorization from the head of the agency employing the purchaser or transferee is obtained, identifying the employee as an individual authorized to conduct the transaction, and authorizing the transaction for the exclusive use of the agency employing the individual.

(2) A sworn peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, or sworn federal law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of the officer’s duties.

(3) An importer or manufacturer of ammunition or firearms who is licensed to engage in business pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(4) A person who is on the centralized list of exempted federal firearms licensees maintained by the Department of Justice pursuant to Article 6 (commencing with Section 28450) of Chapter 6 of Division 6 of this title.

(5) A person whose licensed premises are outside this state and who is licensed as a dealer or collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(6) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.

(7) An ammunition vendor.

(8) A consultant-evaluator.

(9) A person who purchases or receives ammunition at a target facility holding a business or other regulatory license, provided that the ammunition is at all times kept within the facility’s premises.

(10) A person who purchases or receives ammunition from a spouse, registered domestic partner, or immediate family member as defined in Section 16720.

(d) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.
(Amended November 8, 2016, by initiative Proposition 63, Sec. 8.6.)

[taperxz]

Reading the law tells me, the processing fee for the face to face transfer shall be set by DOJ.

Internet transfers are not Face to face. It says the processing fee is the same but....

There doesn't seem to be a storage or handling fee prohibition for internet sales.

[kemasa]

Reading the law tells me, the processing fee for the face to face transfer shall be set by DOJ.

Internet transfers are not Face to face. It says the processing fee is the same but....

There doesn't seem to be a storage or handling fee prohibition for internet sales.

See 30312(b). It seems to be the same as ALL buyers have be be in person.

Remember, there was no limits with regards to a CA PPT either, but that changed over time to no extra fees during the waiting period.

[taperxz]

See 30312(b). It seems to be the same as ALL buyers have be be in person.

Remember, there was no limits with regards to a CA PPT either, but that changed over time to no extra fees during the waiting period.

The law doesn't require an FFL to do these ammo transfers like PPTs. Obviously, store purchases require the same check.
Unlike PPTs the law doesn't hold your license for not doing Face to Face ammo transfers.

An internet transfer will allow for handling fees, probably the collection of sales tax etc.

Remember too, prop 63 and the bill the legislature passed has not legally been integrated. There are two conflicting laws.

DeLeon may have broken the law trying to void parts of 63 preemptively.

[Baboosh]

From a business standpoint, 711 sells lotto, brings in all kinds of business that would otherwise not go. This may be a chance to get more people in the store that otherwise may not even know his business is there. As an FFL, this may be a chance at lots of firearms transfers from sportsmans guide.

Trust me, people will spend hours and waste our time asking all their questions to only save $5 by buying online.

Happens every single day. Answer questions up the rear only to see the same person transfer in the exact gun from online.

[rbetts]

We will be charging a fee for the service of receiving ammo purchased from others. No fee for ammo purchased online from our website. I think a 10.00 transfer fee is fair per transaction. If the buyer knows this up front and is willing to move forward, then so be it.

If we receive it blind from a vendor without upfront communication, our fee will be 25.00 or more. We will be strongly encouraging our customers to purchase from our Webstore and/or to communicate up front with us so we can best help them.

[acespawnshop]

$10 may be fair depending on the work involved. I can see DOJ making us do something dumb like not being able to put multiple calibers on one background.

[Condorguns]

I got the same call from Sportsmans. I told them we would be willing to do this.

I'm waiting to see how this mess of a law shakes out before we really try to get into writing procedures for this. Fees, storage time, returns.....it's a mess.