FFL Sac Area for C&R

[kemasa]

Question, does an out of state FFL need to generate the AI number prior to these supposed shipped guns to an 03?

The CFLC does not apply to C&R FFL holders as they are not dealers.

[taperxz]

The CFLC does not apply to C&R FFL holders as they are not dealers.

OK. Easy to understand the confusion and how things can get sent and self registered.

[kemasa]

OK. Easy to understand the confusion and how things can get sent and self registered.

Quite true. the form does not ask how exactly the firearm was acquired, just who it was received from, so the odds of getting caught is low, but that really does not matter.

So far no one has explained exactly how it is legal when faced with CA PC above. Some try to use the PPT sections and ignore what I posted.

[rbetts]

We can help

[jeremiah12]

So what is your exemption?

ARTICLE 6. Exceptions to the Requirement of Using a Dealer for a Private Party Firearms Transaction [27850 - 27966] ( Article 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

27966.
Commencing January 1, 2014, if all of the following requirements are satisfied, Section 27545 shall not apply to the sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm:
(a) The sale, loan, or transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.
(b) The firearm is not a handgun.
(c) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.
(d) The person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.
(e) The person receiving the firearm is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued thereto.
(f) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall forward by prepaid mail, or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this section shall be provided to them by the department.
(Added by Stats. 2011, Ch. 745, Sec. 45. Effective January 1, 2012.)

What my attorney pointed out is that many are overlooking this PC. It is not a word game. This PC exempts C&R long guns from having to go through a CA FFL.

Then from PC 27585:

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1. (a) It is the
intent of the Legislature in adding Section 27585 to the Penal Code
to do all of the following:
(1) Address the circumstances in which a California resident, on
or after January 1, 2015, acquires a firearm outside of California
and then transports, imports, or brings that firearm into California,
in violation of Section 922(a)(3) of Title 18 of the United States
Code, but where the provisions of Section 27545 of the Penal Code do
not apply.
(2) Allow the current brokering processes set forth in Section 922
(a)(3) of Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 27545 of the
Penal Code, and any implementing statutes to continue.
(3) Allow persons who acquire firearms outside of California by
bequest or intestate succession to utilize the functionally same
reporting requirements as apply to an applicable exemption from
Section 27545 if that receipt were to occur within California.

(b) It is not the intent of the Legislature in enacting Section
27585 to affect any of the following:
(1) The lending of firearms by or to California residents that
occur solely outside of California.
(2) The lending of firearms in this state which comply with
statutes that currently govern the lending of firearms.
(3) To impose duplicative and unnecessary reporting requirements
where reporting requirements already apply.
(4) Persons who currently import or bring firearms into California
under current regulatory statutes who comply with those statutes.

(5) To narrow the exemption set forth in Section 27600 of the
Penal Code for law enforcement acquisition of firearms irrespective
of where the physical acquisition of the firearm took place.

The bolded part I added for emphasis. 27585 was to address the importing of firearms into CA by CA residents in violations of Federal law and when PC27545 does not apply. If PC27545 applies, then 27585 does not apply.

There is no fancy word play. It is written directly in the final bill that was signed into law.

What is even better for me is I do have an aunt who is a retired attorney for the DOJ. She worked for the Department of Consumer Affairs and then later for the Department of Water. After I paid for legal advice and this was brought to my attention, I visited my aunt and asked her to bring it up with one of the attorneys in the Bureau of Firearms when she next visited her friends for lunch. She got confirmation that this was correct and what they were telling the out of state vendors who were calling to ask if it was okay to ship C&R long guns to C&R holders who also had their COE.

Now, I got advice from my attorneys. I read the PC sections myself. I do not give out the names of my attorneys. I always tell people to check with their own attorneys to get their own confirmation and then make your own choice with what you will do.

We know that the DOJ will not put out a determination letter and have and will change their mind. It is my attorney that will defend me free of charge should I be arrested and prosecuted for acting according to his paid for advice. He has an excellent track record unlike the free advise that is very common on Internet forums.

[AlienHobo]

You might check with The Gun Range, or Golden State Tactical. Also perhaps Armory Outpost in Rancho.

The Gun Range made me wait the 10 days for a C&R handgun even though I have a 03FFL and CoE. Next time, I'm going with Golden State Tactical.

[kemasa]

What my attorney pointed out is that many are overlooking this PC. It is not a word game. This PC exempts C&R long guns from having to go through a CA FFL.

Then from PC 27585:



The bolded part I added for emphasis. 27585 was to address the importing of firearms into CA by CA residents in violations of Federal law and when PC27545 does not apply. If PC27545 applies, then 27585 does not apply.

There is no fancy word play. It is written directly in the final bill that was signed into law.

What is even better for me is I do have an aunt who is a retired attorney for the DOJ. She worked for the Department of Consumer Affairs and then later for the Department of Water. After I paid for legal advice and this was brought to my attention, I visited my aunt and asked her to bring it up with one of the attorneys in the Bureau of Firearms when she next visited her friends for lunch. She got confirmation that this was correct and what they were telling the out of state vendors who were calling to ask if it was okay to ship C&R long guns to C&R holders who also had their COE.

Now, I got advice from my attorneys. I read the PC sections myself. I do not give out the names of my attorneys. I always tell people to check with their own attorneys to get their own confirmation and then make your own choice with what you will do.

We know that the DOJ will not put out a determination letter and have and will change their mind. It is my attorney that will defend me free of charge should I be arrested and prosecuted for acting according to his paid for advice. He has an excellent track record unlike the free advise that is very common on Internet forums.

It is not a PPT. If the firearm is in CA, it does not have to go through a CA FFL.

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[SkyHawk]

The Gun Range made me wait the 10 days for a C&R handgun even though I have a 03FFL and CoE. Next time, I'm going with Golden State Tactical.

Good to know, thanks!

[OniKoroshi]

The Gun Range made me wait the 10 days for a C&R handgun even though I have a 03FFL and CoE. Next time, I'm going with Golden State Tactical.

If the C&R firearm was a PPT, there is no option to release same day via normal exemptions. IT IS A KNOWN ISSUE DOJ KNOWS ABOUT BUT DOESN'T WANT TO FIX. FFL would need to log in C&R as if it were a transfer and then 240 hour exemption can be done. Most big shops won't do it due to how firearms get logged in.

[kemasa]

If the C&R firearm was a PPT, there is no option to release same day via normal exemptions. IT IS A KNOWN ISSUE DOJ KNOWS ABOUT BUT DOESN'T WANT TO FIX. FFL would need to log in C&R as if it were a transfer and then 240 hour exemption can be done. Most big shops won't do it due to how firearms get logged in.

A call to the CA DOJ DES can allow for the release as well. If they are not called all the time it will never be fixed.

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[OniKoroshi]

A call to the CA DOJ DES can allow for the release as well. If they are not called all the time it will never be fixed.

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Have you used that method before? I heard FFL's could do that but haven't found
an instance where it was used. Also, is DES pretty easy to get a hold of? Depending on FFL and how busy they are, waiting on the phone won't be something they would prefer.

[kemasa]

Have you used that method before? I heard FFL's could do that but haven't found
an instance where it was used. Also, is DES pretty easy to get a hold of? Depending on FFL and how busy they are, waiting on the phone won't be something they would prefer.

Yes, I have. There is a contact number on the system and they tend to answer quickly.

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[kemasa]

What my attorney pointed out is that many are overlooking this PC. It is not a word game. This PC exempts C&R long guns from having to go through a CA FFL.

Really? No word games? Ok 27966 does not apply since (a) is a problem when from a business as it would not be infrequent.

27545 would apply since neither party holds a dealer’s license issued pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915. While the out of state FFL is a dealer, they are not licensed under the CA PC. This means it has to go through a dealer.

Why did you ignore the first part of reasons for 27585? The list is the reasons and in the case of shipping a firearm into CA does not meet the conditions which includes 27565. My reading of it is additional restrictions, as well as allowing a CA resident to pick up a firearm when they are out of state if the have a C&R FFL and the firearm is a C&R.

You say that if CA PC 27545 applies, then 27585 does not. Where exactly does it say that? You are looking at the bill, but not the actual CA PC. There is no such exemption in 27585, is there? If CA PC 27545 applies then you have to go through a CA dealer, so that makes no sense either as to how you claim it can be shipped to you directly.

The funny part is about the CA DOJ attorneys. The same group which have told people it is legal to get a firearm from a parent who lives out of state, yet that is illegal under Federal law.

You should name the lawyers so that people can make up their own mind and/or contact them for their own defense.

So, again, what exactly is your exemption from 27585?

It does not matter if something is legal to do under one CA PC section if it is illegal to do it under another CA PC section. There needs to be an exemption, as listed in many places for other laws.

You say that 27545 applies? Really?

Penal Code - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370]
( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

TITLE 4. FIREARMS [23500 - 34370]
( Title 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

DIVISION 6. SALE, LEASE, OR TRANSFER OF FIREARMS [26500 - 28490]
( Division 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

CHAPTER 4. Crimes Relating to Sale, Lease, or Transfer of Firearms [27500 - 28000]
( Chapter 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


ARTICLE 1. Crimes Relating to Sale, Lease, or Transfer of Firearms [27500 - 27590]
( Article 1 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


27545.

Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer’s license issued pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).
(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.)

[taperxz]

Well done.