FFL Sac Area for C&R

[rwhillman]

Looking for an FFL in Sacramento area familiar with how to handle out-of-state purchases qualifying as C&Rs. I have FFL03 and COE.

[condor]

Looking for an FFL in Sacramento area familiar with how to handle out-of-state purchases qualifying as C&Rs. I have FFL03 and COE.

Have it shipped to a local FFL1, and pay for the DROS. Usually the gun will come from an out of state FFL who has registered with the CFLC. There are a few dealers that will take guns from non-FFL's, and it is legal, but not generally done. You may pick the C&R long gun up at the time of the DROS. C&R sidearms need to do the 10day. Whether the gun can be shipped directly to you.. or not.. is a personal interpretation of the Regs. Personally to be on the safe side I do the FFL1 DROS. My FFL charges $35 to do the paperwork, and it's $19 to send in the acquisition form, so it's not that big of a difference in cost.

PS... Any dealer that is registered CFLC can take your out of state shipments. Charges do vary so shop around...

[rwhillman]

Have it shipped to a local FFL1, and pay for the DROS. Usually the gun will come from an out of state FFL who has registered with the CFLC. There are a few dealers that will take guns from non-FFL's, and it is legal, but not generally done. You may pick the C&R long gun up at the time of the DROS. C&R sidearms need to do the 10day. Whether the gun can be shipped directly to you.. or not.. is a personal interpretation of the Regs. Personally to be on the safe side I do the FFL1 DROS. My FFL charges $35 to do the paperwork, and it's $19 to send in the acquisition form, so it's not that big of a difference in cost.

PS... Any dealer that is registered CFLC can take your out of state shipments. Charges do vary so shop around...

Thanks. My plan all along was to have it shipped to an FFL1, which is why I was seeking recommendation. I don't think you are correct on C&R. My understanding is that a handgun must go to an FFL1 but is not subject to 10 day wait period if I have FFL03 and COE. If it is not a handgun, it can be shipped directly to me, but of course I need to file the necessary paperwork with the state. I understand there is no way to bypass the FFL1 for a handgun unless I physically pick it up and bring it in-state.

[SkyHawk]

C&R handguns do not need a 10-day wait if buyer has C&R + COE. So the OP is asking which FFLs in Sac know this and know how to use the very simple drop-down 10-day exemption in DES when processing the DROS. Also be sure they mark you exempt from 1-in-30.

You might check with The Gun Range, or Golden State Tactical. Also perhaps Armory Outpost in Rancho.

[rwhillman]

C&R handguns do not need a 10-day wait if buyer has C&R + COE. So the OP is asking which FFLs in Sac know this and know how to use the very simple drop-down 10-day exemption in DES when processing the DROS. Also be sure they mark you exempt from 1-in-30.

You might check with The Gun Range, or Golden State Tactical. Also perhaps Armory Outpost in Rancho.

Thanks for the advice. You put my question much more succinctly than I did.

[kemasa]

If it is not a handgun, it can be shipped directly to me, but of course I need to file the necessary paperwork with the state. I understand there is no way to bypass the FFL1 for a handgun unless I physically pick it up and bring it in-state.

Things changed and the laws apply the same to both handguns and long guns now, although some disagree, so that it can not be shipped directly to you. You can still pick it up out of state and fill out the form.

[jeremiah12]

Things changed and the laws apply the same to both handguns and long guns now, although some disagree, so that it can not be shipped directly to you. You can still pick it up out of state and fill out the form.

C&R long guns can still be shipped directly to the address listed on the FFL03 as long as the person also has a COE. CA law is confusing and calling the DOJ to ask the people who answer the phone rarely gets the right answer. For those of us with a FFL03 who wanted to be absolutely sure, we had to pay for the advise of a competent attorney.

This was also discussed in depth on the C&R forum. https://www.empirearms.com/cal-ffl.htm

Finally, all of the major C&R online dealers still ship C&R long guns to the address on the FFL03 to CA buyers as long as they also have a COE.

[kemasa]

Look at the law and don't ignore what you don't like. The law changed.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[kemasa]

C&R long guns can still be shipped directly to the address listed on the FFL03 as long as the person also has a COE.

Not from out of state.

CA law is confusing and calling the DOJ to ask the people who answer the phone rarely gets the right answer. For those of us with a FFL03 who wanted to be absolutely sure, we had to pay for the advise of a competent attorney.

Then you can explain exactly how you can be exempt from CA PC 27585, which should be really easy since your attorney will explain it.

The CA PC is not always that confusing, but there are some who try to play games with words, such as what importing means, such as claiming that if UPS delivers a package to your door, you are not importing in CA when it comes from outside of the state, which is false.

If you can't explain, then you should get your money back from the attorney.

This was also discussed in depth on the C&R forum. https://www.empirearms.com/cal-ffl.htm

Yes, but other than those who play word games, no one can answer simple questions. CA PC 27585 limits firearms coming into CA. 27565 is the exemption for C&R license holders, but it has restrictions. The CA PC says what is illegal so ALL sections have to be dealt with, not just one which you claim makes it acceptable especially when another section has limits and says no.

So the simple question is what exempts you from 27585, only 27565 works for C&R holders, but you have to follow ALL of it.

Finally, all of the major C&R online dealers still ship C&R long guns to the address on the FFL03 to CA buyers as long as they also have a COE.

So what. People speed in the road all the time, that does mean it is legal?

[kemasa]

Please explain exactly how you get around these CA PC sections:

Penal Code - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370]
( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

TITLE 4. FIREARMS [23500 - 34370]
( Title 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

DIVISION 6. SALE, LEASE, OR TRANSFER OF FIREARMS [26500 - 28490]
( Division 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

CHAPTER 4. Crimes Relating to Sale, Lease, or Transfer of Firearms [27500 - 28000]
( Chapter 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


ARTICLE 1. Crimes Relating to Sale, Lease, or Transfer of Firearms [27500 - 27590]
( Article 1 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


27585.

(a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015, from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to or affect any of the following:

(1) A licensed collector who is subject to and complies with Section 27565.

(2) A dealer, if the dealer is acting in the course and scope of his or her activities as a dealer.

(3) A wholesaler, if the wholesaler is acting in the course and scope of his or her activities as a wholesaler.

(4) A person licensed as an importer of firearms or ammunition or licensed as a manufacturer of firearms or ammunition, pursuant to Section 921 et seq. of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto if the importer or manufacturer is acting in the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensed importer or manufacturer.

(5) A personal firearm importer who is subject to and complies with Section 27560.

(6) A person who complies with subdivision (b) of Section 27875.

(7) A person who complies with subdivision (b), (c), or (d) of Section 27920.

(8) A person who is on the centralized list of exempted federal firearms licensees pursuant to Section 28450 if that person is acting in the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensee.

(9) A firearm regulated pursuant to Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 18710) of Division 5 of Title 2 acquired by a person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 18900) of Chapter 1 of Division 5 of Title 2, if that person is acting within the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensee and in accordance with the terms and conditions of the permit.

(10) A firearm regulated pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 30500) of Division 10 acquired by a person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Section 31005, if that person is acting within the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensee and in accordance with the terms and conditions of the permit.

(11) A firearm regulated pursuant to Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 32610) of Division 10 acquired by a person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Section 32650, if that person is acting within the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensee and in accordance with the terms and conditions of the permit.

(12) A firearm regulated pursuant to Article 2 (commencing with Section 33300) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 acquired by a person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Section 33300, if that person is acting within the course and scope of his or her activities as a licensee and in accordance with the terms and conditions of the permit.

(13) The importation of a firearm into the state, bringing a firearm into the state, or transportation of a firearm into the state, that is regulated by any of the following statutes, if the acquisition of that firearm occurred outside of California and is conducted in accordance with the applicable provisions of the following statutes:

(A) Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 18710) of Division 5 of Title 2, relating to destructive devices and explosives.

(B) Section 24410, relating to cane guns.

(C) Section 24510, relating to firearms that are not immediately recognizable as firearms.

(D) Sections 24610 and 24680, relating to undetectable firearms.

(E) Section 24710, relating to wallet guns.

(F) Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 30500) of Division 10, relating to assault weapons.

(G) Section 31500, relating to unconventional pistols.

(H) Sections 33215 to 33225, inclusive, relating to short-barreled rifles and short-barreled shotguns.

(I) Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 32610) of Division 10, relating to machineguns.

(J) Section 33600, relating to zip guns, and the exemptions in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, as they relate to zip guns.

(c) The provisions of this section are cumulative and do not restrict the application of any other law. However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by this section and different provisions of this code shall not be punished under more than one provision.
(Added by Stats. 2014, Ch. 878, Sec. 4. Effective January 1, 2015.)

Penal Code - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370]
( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

TITLE 4. FIREARMS [23500 - 34370]
( Title 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

DIVISION 6. SALE, LEASE, OR TRANSFER OF FIREARMS [26500 - 28490]
( Division 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

CHAPTER 4. Crimes Relating to Sale, Lease, or Transfer of Firearms [27500 - 28000]
( Chapter 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


ARTICLE 1. Crimes Relating to Sale, Lease, or Transfer of Firearms [27500 - 27590]
( Article 1 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


27565.

(a) This section applies in the following circumstances:

(1) A person is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(2) The licensed premises of that person are within this state.

(3) The licensed collector acquires, outside of this state, a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm.

(4) The licensed collector takes actual possession of that firearm outside of this state pursuant to the provisions of subsection (j) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code, as amended by Public Law 104-208, and transports the firearm into this state.

(5) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

(b) Within five days of transporting a firearm into this state under the circumstances described in subdivision (a), the licensed collector shall report the acquisition of that firearm to the department in a format prescribed by the department.
(Amended by Stats. 2011, Ch. 745, Sec. 28. Effective January 1, 2012.)

[kemasa]

CA PC 27585 exemptions:

Penal Code - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370]
( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

TITLE 4. FIREARMS [23500 - 34370]
( Title 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

DIVISION 6. SALE, LEASE, OR TRANSFER OF FIREARMS [26500 - 28490]
( Division 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

CHAPTER 4. Crimes Relating to Sale, Lease, or Transfer of Firearms [27500 - 28000]
( Chapter 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


ARTICLE 6. Exceptions to the Requirement of Using a Dealer for a Private Party Firearms Transaction [27850 - 27966]
( Article 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


27875.

(a) Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a firearm by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met:

(1) The transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.

(2) The transfer is between members of the same immediate family.

(3) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The reports that individuals complete pursuant to this subdivision shall be made available to them in a format prescribed by the department.

(4) Until January 1, 2015, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a valid handgun safety certificate if the firearm is a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2015, a valid firearm safety certificate for any firearm, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.

(5) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.

(b) Subdivision (a) of Section 27585 does not apply to a person who imports a firearm into this state, brings a firearm into this state, or transports a firearm into this state if all of the following requirements are met:

(1) The person acquires ownership of the firearm from an immediate family member by bequest or intestate succession.

(2) The person has obtained a valid firearm safety certificate, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.

(3) The receipt of any firearm by the individual by bequest or intestate succession is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.

(4) The person acquiring ownership of the firearm by bequest or intestate succession is 18 years of age or older.

(5) Within 30 days of that person taking possession of the firearm and importing, bringing, or transporting it into this state, the person shall submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The reports that individuals complete pursuant to this subdivision shall be made available to them in a format prescribed by the department.
(Amended by Stats. 2014, Ch. 878, Sec. 7. Effective January 1, 2015.)

Penal Code - PEN
PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34370]
( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

TITLE 4. FIREARMS [23500 - 34370]
( Title 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

DIVISION 6. SALE, LEASE, OR TRANSFER OF FIREARMS [26500 - 28490]
( Division 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

CHAPTER 4. Crimes Relating to Sale, Lease, or Transfer of Firearms [27500 - 28000]
( Chapter 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


ARTICLE 6. Exceptions to the Requirement of Using a Dealer for a Private Party Firearms Transaction [27850 - 27966]
( Article 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )


27920.

(a) Section 27545 does not apply to a person who takes title or possession of a firearm by operation of law if the person is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm and all of the following conditions are met:

(1) If the person taking title or possession is neither a levying officer as defined in Section 481.140, 511.060, or 680.260 of the Code of Civil Procedure, nor a person who is receiving that firearm pursuant to subdivision (g), (h), (i), or (j) of Section 16990, the person shall, within 30 days of taking possession, submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title or possession was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question.

(2) If the person taking title or possession is receiving the firearm pursuant to subdivision (g) or (h) of Section 16990, the person shall do both of the following:

(A) Within 30 days of taking possession, submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title or possession was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question.

(B) Until January 1, 2015, prior to taking title or possession of the firearm, the person shall obtain a handgun safety certificate, if the firearm is a handgun. Commencing January 1, 2015, prior to taking title or possession of the firearm, the person shall obtain a valid firearm safety certificate for any firearm, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be presented.

(3) Where the person receiving title or possession of the firearm is a person described in subdivision (i) of Section 16990, on the date that the person is delivered the firearm, the name and other information concerning the person taking possession of the firearm, how title or possession of the firearm was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm by make, model, serial number, and other identifying characteristics shall be entered into the Automated Firearms System (AFS) via the California Law Enforcement Telecommunications System (CLETS) by the law enforcement or state agency that transferred or delivered the firearm, provided, however, that if the firearm is not a handgun and does not have a serial number, identification number, or identification mark assigned to it, that fact shall be noted in AFS. An agency without access to AFS shall arrange with the sheriff of the county in which the agency is located to input this information via this system.

(4) Where the person receiving title or possession of the firearm is a person described in subdivision (j) of Section 16990, on the date that the person is delivered the firearm, the name and other information concerning the person taking possession of the firearm, how title or possession of the firearm was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm by make, model, serial number, and other identifying characteristics shall be entered into the AFS via the CLETS by the law enforcement or state agency that transferred or delivered the firearm, provided, however, that if the firearm is not a handgun and does not have a serial number, identification number, or identification mark assigned to it, that fact shall be noted in AFS. An agency without access to AFS shall arrange with the sheriff of the county in which the agency is located to input this information via this system. In addition, that law enforcement agency shall not deliver the firearm to the person referred to in this subdivision unless, prior to the delivery of the firearm, the person presents proof to the agency that the person is the holder of a valid handgun safety certificate if the firearm is a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2015, a valid firearm safety certificate for any firearm, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be presented.

(b) Subdivision (a) of Section 27585 does not apply to a person who imports a firearm into this state, brings a firearm into this state, or transports a firearm into this state if all of the following requirements are met:

(1) The person acquires ownership of the firearm as an executor or administrator of an estate.

(2) If acquisition of the firearm had occurred within this state, the receipt of the firearm by the executor or administrator would be exempt from the provisions of Section 27545 pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (a).

(3) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm and importing, bringing, or transporting it into this state, the person shall submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question.

(4) If the executor or administrator subsequently acquires ownership of that firearm in an individual capacity, prior to transferring ownership to himself or herself, he or she shall obtain a valid firearm safety certificate, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.

(5) The executor or administrator is 18 years of age or older.

(c) Subdivision (a) of Section 27585 does not apply to a person who imports a firearm into this state, brings a firearm into this state, or transports a firearm into this state if all of the following requirements are met:

(1) The person acquires ownership of the firearm by bequest or intestate succession as a surviving spouse or as the surviving registered domestic partner of the decedent who owned that firearm.

(2) If acquisition of the firearm had occurred within this state, the receipt of the firearm by the surviving spouse or registered domestic partner would be exempt from the provisions of Section 27545 pursuant to paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) by virtue of subdivision (h) of Section 16990.

(3) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm and importing, bringing, or transporting it into this state, the person shall submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question.

(4) The person has obtained a valid firearm safety certificate, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.

(d) Subdivision (a) of Section 27585 does not apply to a person who imports a firearm into this state, brings a firearm into this state, or transports a firearm into this state if all of the following requirements are met:

(1) The firearm is imported into this country pursuant to provisions of Section 925(a)(4) of Title 18 of the United States Code.

(2) The person is not subject to the requirements of Section 27560.

(3) The firearm is not a firearm that is prohibited by any provision listed in Section 16590.

(4) The firearm is not an assault weapon.

(5) The firearm is not a machinegun.

(6) The firearm is not a .50 BMG rifle.

(7) The firearm is not a destructive device.

(8) The person is 18 years of age or older.

(9) Within 30 days of that person taking possession of the firearm and importing, bringing, or transporting it into this state, the person shall submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question.

(e) The reports that individuals complete pursuant to this section shall be made available to them in a format prescribed by the Department of Justice.
(Amended by Stats. 2014, Ch. 878, Sec. 8. Effective January 1, 2015.)

So what is your exemption?

[taperxz]

CA PC 27585 exemptions:





So what is your exemption?

Yep. In short, CA DOJ wants all transfers documented through DROS. In other words, if you don't have a CFD and a DROS account....

[kemasa]

Yep. In short, CA DOJ wants all transfers documented through DROS. In other words, if you don't have a CFD and a DROS account....

You can go out of state and get it and then fill out the form when you come back.

It seems clear to me that you just can't have it shipped to you and then fill out the form AND have it be legal. Odds are you can get away with it, but that still does not make it legal.

[taperxz]

You can go out of state and get it and then fill out the form when you come back.

It seems clear to me that you just can't have it shipped to you and then fill out the form AND have it be legal. Odds are you can get away with it, but that still does not make it legal.

I agree with you.

In state was what I was referencing to.

[taperxz]

Question, does an out of state FFL need to generate the AI number prior to these supposed shipped guns to an 03?