Effefct of New Guidelines on Needing FFL

[Chewy65]

Have I got this wrong? Will a significant number of persons selling Off Roster handguns on the CG marketplace as private parties likely have to get an FFL under the new guidelines as to when one is in the business?

If so, I am thinking that the available supply of off roster guns for purchase by private persons will dry up even more. Does this make sense?

[Condorguns]

Have I got this wrong? Will a significant number of persons selling Off Roster handguns on the CG marketplace as private parties likely have to get an FFL under the new guidelines as to when one is in the business?

If so, I am thinking that the available supply of off roster guns for purchase by private persons will dry up even more. Does this make sense?

The PPT market here in California will not change at all. You all have to use a FFL to finish a PPT.

[Chewy65]

The PPT market here in California will not change at all. You all have to use a FFL to finish a PPT.

Even if the seller holds a FFL, it can be done as a PPT and in that case the roster does not apply?

[Condorguns]

Yes. If I have a off roster gun I as a private individual can sell it via PPT.

I don't loose my rights as a private person just because I also have a FFL.

[71MUSTY]

I think OP is thinking in another direction. Suppose Obama decides anyone who sell more then one handgun a year needs to get an FFL.

If people had to get a FFL to sell a second handgun the marketplace could dry up fast because it wouldn't be worth the extra costs.

But a more precise answer to OP's question is as stated by another poster. We already have to run all PPT's thru a FFL in California so Obama's latest actions will not effect us in California.


They might just wake up people in free states though.

[Chewy65]

Thanks both for the explanations. 71MUSTY is correct that I am concerned that sales from "private collections" will not be allowed via PPT and therefor not qualify for the roster exemption if considered to be for profit, not occasional, etcetera.

It makes sense that a dealer should be permitted to transfer via a PPT where it was truly their personal handgun, but then we are back to how frequently and if it is being done for profit.

[MontClaire]

While you all discuss how you are going to bend over for the king, think about do you really want to comply with an illegal executive order.

[Condorguns]

While you all discuss how you are going to bend over for the king, think about do you really want to comply with an illegal executive order.

How many employees will loose their jobs when you loose your FFL?

[Chewy65]

Here is a link to an older FFL thread on how an FFL can sell a gun from their personal collection.

The problem I see is that in so called Free States there is no problem, since there is no roster, but we have it in CA. Consequently, ATF may not be concerned with off roster transfers, but CDOJ may very well get fired up by the new ATF guidelines as to when a license is needed.

[BONECUTTER]

Have I got this wrong? Will a significant number of persons selling Off Roster handguns on the CG marketplace as private parties likely have to get an FFL under the new guidelines as to when one is in the business?

There have anyways been dealing in firearms without a license laws. This is nothing new and people always could of got in trouble both on Fed and State level.

Even if the seller holds a FFL, it can be done as a PPT and in that case the roster does not apply?

An FFL can only PPT from personal inventory. Since they are not exempt to the roster they can't DROS and off roster to themselves and then PPT it. The Feds (because of other states) have a rule that the FFL can sell anything transferred to personal inventory for a year.

https://www.atf.gov/file/53366/download Third, the licensee must have maintained the firearm as part of his or her personal firearms collection for 1 year from the date the firearm was transferred to the personal collection, as shown in the bound book.

So what I think you asking if they are gonna stop doing was never legal.

CA FFL's are not Roster exempt and must run a DROS though a FFL.
Out of state FFL's must keep firearms for one year before doing a transfer without 4473/NICS. Anything under and year needs to go back to their bound book and 4473/NICS'd.

[Chewy65]

Bonecutter,

Thanks for that link. I see the part about not needing to do a 4473 on a firearm transferred to the private collection a year earlier.

As for what you say about a FFL not being exempt from the roster, I had hadn't even thought of that and assumed that they could transfer an off roster handgun to their personal firearm collection. If they do so, are they in violation of CA law as soon as they transfer an off roster handgun to their personal collection?

What I have been thinking was that a FFL could sell a private collection handgun by PPT, but the PPT roster exemption does not apply to that transfer because one is only created by PC 32110 (a) if made "to comply with Section 27545".

27545 mandates that a FFL be used if "neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license" meaning a CA dealer's license which is only issued if you have a FFL.

Due to the seller having a CA dealer's license (even when are selling from their private collection they still are licensees, even if federal law excuses the 4473/NCIS), the transaction need not be through another dealer. I suppose it can be done that way, but it is not being done so "in order to comply with Section 27545." Since it is not being done to comply with the mandate of 27545, there is no roster exemption.