Customers Admitting To Breaking Law

[ugimports]

So I just did a PPT with a customer who admitted they allegedly drove up to Oregon did an in-stage Oregon PPT (no FFL involved) and drove back down to CA for an Off Roster handgun.

Other than telling them that was an illegal transfer do we have any other obligation to do anything?

It's pretty bad because he also admitted he moved into CA in 2011 and never reg'd his guns AND that he's done several PPTs since then, but never went to a dealer because he thought only store purchases required paperwork.

He also thought he was leaving today with a PPT handgun. He drove up from Newport Beach to Fremont to buy. He also thought I could ship the gun to him after the waiting period.

I did NOT drill down to ask if any were C&R, when it happened, etc.. because I don't really need to know. It's possible some of those "non-FFL PPTs" were legit, but I have a feeling he was operating under the assumption things worked like they did from where he came from.

Curious what, if anything, other dealers do when they meet customers telling "stories" of what they may or may have done.

I did tell this customer not to get caught with the Oregon PPT since bad things would likely happen. I don't know what the bad things are or what specific PC was broken and whether it's misdo or felony. At a minimum it was an illegal federal transfer across state lines.

[faris1984]

Maybe undercover?

[Stanze]

I would of been uncomfortable and cancelled the transaction.

Customer could of been a plant.

[ugimports]

I would of been uncomfortable and cancelled the transaction.

Customer could of been a plant.

Plant for what? The transaction with me is legit. The question is am I under some legal obligation if a customer tells me stupid stuff?

[ugimports]

Maybe undercover?

For what purpose?

[Stanze]

Plant for what? The transaction with me is legit. The question is am I under some legal obligation if a customer tells me stupid stuff?

There's a difference between "stupid stuff" and admitting to breaking the law.

What if customer said he goes out of state to skirt gun laws to sell to terrorists?

[ugimports]

There's a difference between "stupid stuff" and admitting to breaking the law.

What if customer said he goes out of state to skirt gun laws to sell to terrorists?

That's admitting to a straw sale which I would be forced to stop the transaction. And I equate breaking the law to stupid stuff. Additionally, he didn't know he was breaking the law. I informed him if what he did was true he broke the law.

If he told me he was purchasing the gun to murder someone (a law not yet committed) and said he was serious I would stop the sale.

If he told me he previously murdered someone and was convicted then I would remind him he's answering the questions on the forms penalty of perjury and that he would need to mark the appropriate line on 4473 as Yes at which point the sale would stop.

I've had customer tell me that they did some "bad" stuff in the past and got caught up with the law but were pretty sure it wasn't a felony. I tell them the same thing about answering under penalty of perjury. Isn't the purpose of the background check to catch the "bad guys"?

[71MUSTY]

Maybe undercover?

Possibly this^^^^

Or just uninformed.

Personally in my business if a customer starts talking about breaking the law or asks me to break the law for them I will explain what the law is and then ask them to leave. I don't want or need their business. I'm not a FFL so I don't know what FFL ethics are, but...

[ugimports]

What would be the purpose of canceling the sale? If you were an auto salesman and your customer talked about how he liked to race down the freeway would you not sell the car? If you work at an AT&T store and the customer talked about calling his booky would you not sell the phone?

The stuff the guy talked about, while illegal, wasn't murder or some plot to kill the president or commit some terrorist act. It's an old guy that doesn't know any better. Much the same as the many customers that freely admit they purchase hi-caps with cash in Nevada and drive them over the border. I tell those guys that's illegal and they probably shouldn't do that.

The question I'm asking other dealers (which is why I posted in the FFL forum) is if they were aware of any legal obligations for us to do anything when we hear this customers admitting to being stupid/ignorant of the law.

Truthfully all the stuff I ever heard was people that didn't know (because they are infrequent buyers and don't hang out on calguns).

[ugimports]

What would be the purpose of canceling the sale? If you were an auto salesman and your customer talked about how he liked to race down the freeway would you not sell the car? If you work at an AT&T store and the customer talked about calling his booky would you not sell the phone?

The stuff the guy talked about, while illegal, wasn't murder or some plot to kill the president or commit some terrorist act. It's an old guy that doesn't know any better. Much the same as the many customers that freely admit they purchase hi-caps with cash in Nevada and drive them over the border. I tell those guys that's illegal and they probably shouldn't do that.

The question I'm asking other dealers (which is why I posted in the FFL forum) is if they were aware of any legal obligations for us to do anything when we hear this customers admitting to being stupid/ignorant of the law.

Truthfully all the stuff I ever heard was people that didn't know (because they are infrequent buyers and don't hang out on calguns).

[Condorguns]

You are under no obligation to turn them in for something they did that did not involve you, and who would you turn them into?

Personally when I have people say stuff like this I just calmly tell them the way things go are done here so they have the information to stay out of trouble if they choose. What they do with that Information is up to them. As long as no illegal things are done in my shop or parking lot I would prefer they just keep their stories to themselves.

[ugimports]

You are under no obligation to turn them in for something they did that did not involve you, and who would you turn them into?

Personally when I have people say stuff like this I just calmly tell them the way things go are done here so they have the information to stay out of trouble if they choose. What they do with that Information is up to them. As long as no illegal things are done in my shop or parking lot I would prefer they just keep their stories to themselves.

Pretty much what I thought and is pretty much how I typically handle. Thanks for the feedback.

[Condorguns]

Pretty much what I thought and is pretty much how I typically handle. Thanks for the feedback.

Anytime. People tend to run their mouths in gun shops. I have learned to mostly tune it out.

[audiophil2]

Customers like to talk. They are worse than fisherman stories sometimes. If they say something that has a direct affect on a sale they get denied and given the boot. Telling stories and telling future plans are completely different.

I try to limit the theoretical conversations to a minimum. I get plenty of conversations about converting guns into machine guns. I try to avoid the topic but there are guys that have legit questions here in AZ.

[kemasa]

There is no duty to report, unless perhaps you were a LEO, but you might point out to the person that it is best not to admit to doing illegal things, which it seems that they did not know it was illegal, as it could be reported to the BATF and/or CA DOJ. Who knows if they would so anything, but it is best to not risk it, then again it is best to know the laws and not violate them.