ATF and CA DOJ Audits

[Condorguns]

For you FFL's that have been around a while, how frequently do you get audited? There's a local shop here that FREQUENTLY spews out bad information and, without fail, tells me and several other customers "Well, we just had an ATF audit two weeks ago and they said ________". Or Well, we just had a DOJ audit last week and they said ______".

They've told me this at least fifteen times in the last year, and I've heard them tell several other people the same, several times. Every single time they do it, the information is completely false, with no basis in reality. Everything from certain types of ammo being illegal, to bullet button nonsense, to LEO needing a letter from their chief approving off-roster purchases even if the 10 day wait is not being waived, to "Desert Eagles in 50ae are illegal and can't be sold to LE like regular off roster guns because the DOJ said so". Typical gunstore FUD, but they have got to be the most audited shop in the history of ever, or they are simply lying to me and everyone else.

Other than that, it's a great shop...but it's aggravating to be lied to every time you walk in the door, and I'm just curious if my belief that they do not get 15-20 audits per year is true, as I'm sure it is.

Most of the time you get a DOJ visit every one to two years. ATF is a crap shoot. I have had ATF visits every year for a bit then for no reason they just stop coming. The longest I have gone without an AFT audit was 14 years.

[Tyke8319]

Thanks for sharing. When you were sent letters about the upcoming renewal, did it have a date or did you call you to make an appointment?

They specified a date.

I should make one clarification. There was one occasion when ATF sent a letter indicating they would be in my area (rural NorCal) and wanted to stop by on their way through to do more audits at other spread out locations.
I politely wrote back a fax indicating I would be on vacation and the store would be closed. During that time period. I received no further communication and went on with the scheduled trip.

[RZ Operations]

Does anyone have any experience on whether the CA DOJ audits the CFLC numbers? I recall on one thread that some dealers record this number in their bound book even though the CFLC # is a state requirement but it was easier for the dealer to track on their end.

[Baboosh]

DOJ have never asked for mine. I throw all of them in a box in no special order.

It is the only paper not specifically organized and filed.

[Condorguns]

Doj asked once to see the CFLC paperwork. I pointed to a box and they said ok. They never looked in the box.

[RZ Operations]

I guess I shouldn't spend time filing mine...

[rbetts]

We file by gunbook number and keep CFLC info with each Firearm it belongs with. Our ATF Audit completed last Friday and Agent Returned with writeup this week. Most errors were clerical and easy fixes. Violations related to Missing Multiple handgun forms and failure to log out (close an entry) in a timely manner. First full audit in 7 years and overall a good audit. Especially for the volume of firearms going through our store.

MRF's and MHF's are a big deal to the ATF as well as denied transactions.

[ugimports]

We file by gunbook number and keep CFLC info with each Firearm it belongs with. Our ATF Audit completed last Friday and Agent Returned with writeup this week. Most errors were clerical and easy fixes. Violations related to Missing Multiple handgun forms and failure to log out (close an entry) in a timely manner. First full audit in 7 years and overall a good audit. Especially for the volume of firearms going through our store.

MRF's and MHF's are a big deal to the ATF as well as denied transactions.

I got dinged for forgetting a couple mhfs to myself

[RZ Operations]

I got dinged for forgetting a couple mhfs to myself

I thought I read something about this on Calguns that we didn't need to complete the multiple handgun form for ourselves as dealers? Does this depend on whether you are a sole proprietor or LLC/Corp? What if you are a sole proprietor and you still fill out a 4473?

[rbetts]

My final conference is tomorrow. Ill ask the agent as I had the same question for sse's I did at the end of the year


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[ugimports]

I was told I had to do it. I am an LLC on my FFL. Fortunately, it was only 2 I think.

[Baboosh]

For MRF it says:

This form is to be used by licensees to report all transactions in which an unlicensed person acquired, at one time or during five consecutive business days, two or more semi-automatic rifles larger than .22 caliber (including .223/5.56 caliber) with the ability to accept a detachable magazine. This form is not required when the rifles are returned to the same person from whom they are received.

Does this apply to rifles with BulletButtons also?

[RZ Operations]

For MRF it says:

This form is to be used by licensees to report all transactions in which an unlicensed person acquired, at one time or during five consecutive business days, two or more semi-automatic rifles larger than .22 caliber (including .223/5.56 caliber) with the ability to accept a detachable magazine. This form is not required when the rifles are returned to the same person from whom they are received.

Does this apply to rifles with BulletButtons also?

My ATF rep told me that it does include bullet button rifles when I had the initial interview in January.

[ripro75]

I thought I read something about this on Calguns that we didn't need to complete the multiple handgun form for ourselves as dealers? Does this depend on whether you are a sole proprietor or LLC/Corp? What if you are a sole proprietor and you still fill out a 4473?

The form is for unlicensed persons, sole prop are the licensees and therefore should not need it.

For MRF it says:

This form is to be used by licensees to report all transactions in which an unlicensed person acquired, at one time or during five consecutive business days, two or more semi-automatic rifles larger than .22 caliber (including .223/5.56 caliber) with the ability to accept a detachable magazine. This form is not required when the rifles are returned to the same person from whom they are received.

Does this apply to rifles with BulletButtons also?

Yes

[RZ Operations]

For those of you that are home based, has the ATF or CA DOJ ever ask to see your personal firearms inventory or any firearms that you transferred to yourself during an audit? I would imagine this wouldn't happen in a brick and mortar location as your personal firearms would be at home.

I currently keep my personal firearms in a different room than where my place of business is which is my office.