Pistol Frame to Complete Pistol

[ugimports]

If you DROS a pistol frame and later complete the build into a pistol do you still need to volreg it? Or is that no longer applicable because the frame was registered when DROS was completed?

I'm guessing same as long guns and no additional reg needed, but wasn't sure if for some reasons pistols were different because folks typically will volreg an 80% build. I'm guessing since that never went through DROS is why people volreg it as well.

[Baboosh]

To DROS a pistol frame the transferee must be exempt from the roster.

If you DROS it in SSE configuration then it was not a frame, it was a complete single shot pistol.

If DROSed then there is no need to fill out a volreg form as the firearm is already DROSed.

People volreg 80% because they were never DROSed but there is no need to volreg a 80% build. If you did then what was the point of doing an 80%

It would be like you changing your 556 AR upper to a 22LR upper and goiung through DROS again or filling out a volreg.

[ugimports]

To DROS a pistol frame the transferee must be exempt from the roster.

If you DROS it in SSE configuration then it was not a frame, it was a complete single shot pistol.

If DROSed then there is no need to fill out a volreg form as the firearm is already DROSed.

People volreg 80% because they were never DROSed but there is no need to volreg a 80% build. If you did then what was the point of doing an 80%

It would be like you changing your 556 AR upper to a 22LR upper and goiung through DROS again or filling out a volreg.

Why do you have to be exempt to dros a frame now? Previously it was because a SHD couldn't be done if not exempt. With the new regs SHD is not required for frame or receivers.

Why can't I dros a glock 19 frame to a customer?

[ASD1]

Handguns frames still need to be on the roster and "AS TESTED".

[ugimports]

Handguns frames still need to be on the roster and "AS TESTED".

Why? What if you want to build a SSE pistol using a 1911 parts kit like from here without the 80% frame:

http://1911builders.com/

Why wouldn't it be legal to DROS as an exempt pistol frame since the end result will be an SSE pistol complying with SSE2 rules?

Since no SHD has to be done on the frame what prevents delivery and what law is broken?

[ASD1]

Good point.
My thoughts is that it is a "Frame" you are selling "not" a SSE-2 pistol
as you have no control of what the end user does with it.

An SSE-2 pistol is a break open / bolt action

[Baboosh]

Why do you have to be exempt to dros a frame now? Previously it was because a SHD couldn't be done if not exempt. With the new regs SHD is not required for frame or receivers.

Why can't I dros a glock 19 frame to a customer?

A frame is not a rostered pistol. You cannot DROS just a frame to anyone who is not exempt from the roster.

You can do a PPT of a frame from someone to someone if you have a model like it available for them to do a SHD on.

A Glock 19 frame is not a Glock 19 as tested and approved by the CA DOJ.

[Baboosh]

Why? What if you want to build a SSE pistol using a 1911 parts kit like from here without the 80% frame:

http://1911builders.com/

Why wouldn't it be legal to DROS as an exempt pistol frame since the end result will be an SSE pistol complying with SSE2 rules?

Since no SHD has to be done on the frame what prevents delivery and what law is broken?

If you are taking a frame and building it up as a SSE 1911 then you must be an 07, not an 01, and report it on your manufacturing report.

It is not about the end result, you have no control what the end result is and what the customer does with it. All that matters is what you submit the DROS on. For you submit a frame it must be to an exempt person or exempt from the roster. Frames alone are not exempt from the roster. If this was true then we all would just sell off list guns as frames and have the customer miraculously find the slide in the parking lot when they leave.

If the gun you are submitting as an Exempt Pistol Sale it must be and meet all specifications for the exemption you are using.

A SHD must be done on any firearm that is delivered unless the person is exempt. Even if you PPT a frame to someone you must still do a SHD on a like model. Frames are not exempt from a SHD.

[ugimports]

Where does the PC state Frames are considered complete pistols? I agree it's not a rostered pistol, but that's the point. It's not a pistol so why does it have to be on the roster? What if the person was using the "pistol" frame to build into a carbine?

AR receivers are not complete rifles.

Agreed you have no control what a user does with a frame. You also have no control whether or not a customer builds a stripped AR lower into a compliant rifle or not.

Why does that have any bearing on what you can transfer?

The only issue I remember when frames were previously discussed was the SHD issues and not the roster specifically since a frame is not a pistol so should not be required to comply with the roster. If there was specific PC can someone find it. I don't recall PC around the roster mentioning anything about frames.

[ugimports]

...A SHD must be done on any firearm that is delivered unless the person is exempt. Even if you PPT a frame to someone you must still do a SHD on a like model. Frames are not exempt from a SHD.

Frames are exempt from SHD now..

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=16238007&postcount=9

This is the only reason why I think it's ok now...

(b) If only the serialized or finished frame or receiver of a weapon is being delivered, no safe
handling demonstration is required.

[PolishMike]

You can DROS a frame. It just has to be DROS'd as a long gun receiver. Which you then can not legally build into a pistol.

[Baboosh]

Where does the PC state Frames are considered complete pistols? I agree it's not a rostered pistol, but that's the point. It's not a pistol so why does it have to be on the roster? What if the person was using the "pistol" frame to build into a carbine?

AR receivers are not complete rifles.

Agreed you have no control what a user does with a frame. You also have no control whether or not a customer builds a stripped AR lower into a compliant rifle or not.

Why does that have any bearing on what you can transfer?

The only issue I remember when frames were previously discussed was the SHD issues and not the roster specifically since a frame is not a pistol so should not be required to comply with the roster. If there was specific PC can someone find it. I don't recall PC around the roster mentioning anything about frames.

If the person was using the pistol frame to be built as a carbine then they would be DROSed as a Dealer Long Gun Sale.

AR receivers are not pistols and therefor not subject to the roster.

[Baboosh]

Frames are exempt from SHD now..

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=16238007&postcount=9

This is the only reason why I think it's ok now...

Interesting, I am going to read up on it. I was under the assumption that was for just Long Gun frames/Receivers.

Thanks for that info.

[Baboosh]

Remember federally you can go Pistol, Rifle, Pistol

In CA once a rifle always a rifle.

[ugimports]

You can DROS a frame. It just has to be DROS'd as a long gun receiver. Which you then can not legally build into a pistol.

Can you find the PC that states pistol "frames" are considered pistols in regards to the roster? I have contrary info from the DOJ about being able to DROS frames, but of course I understand I can take that with a grain of salt.

Here's an initial interaction when SHD was still "required":

ugimports said: Can I use a Glock Gen3 19 pistol to do a SHD for a Glock Gen3 19 frame same as I would with an AR lower receiver? (initial issue report)
DOJ Response (01/02/2015 01:10 PM ): How is the frame being DROSed and to who?
ugimports said (01/02/2015 01:16 PM ): The frame would be DROSd as a pistol to a non-exempt individual who already has a Glock Gen3 19 slide.
DOJ Response (01/03/2015 11:51 AM ): Yes, please have purchaser perform SHD on similar firearm that the frame will be built.

Now that SHD isn't required I don't see why I could follow that info (again taken with a grain of salt with who gave it to me). I have an email from one of the DOJ Inspectors as well stating that an AR pistol frame would be ok as long as marked "pistol" (which we all know means nothing) as well.

So 2 different DOJ resources not straight up telling me pistol frames are only to exempt / LEOs which is why I think it's not breaking a law.