Intrafamilial Transfer Question with non roster gun.

[RZ Operations]

Traditionally, an example of an intrafamilial transfer would be an out of state parent gifting a non roster gun to their child in CA. The parent would ship the gun to the CA FFL to handle the transfer.

Is it possible for the out of state parent to have the CA FFL order the gun for the child as a gift instead of the parent shipping the gun?

[Oceanbob]

Traditionally, an example of an intrafamilial transfer would be an out of state parent gifting a non roster gun to their child in CA. The parent would ship the gun to the CA FFL to handle the transfer.

Is it possible for the out of state parent to have the CA FFL order the gun for the child as a gift instead of the parent shipping the gun?

No.

Because the chain of ownership would exclude the parent. The parent should already 'own' the gun and following procedure, write a Gift letter with a copy of his/her drivers license. Include that letter in the gun case. Then following Federal Law, that FFL ships the gun to the CA FFL. To be a Gift, the parent has to own that gun to be a roster exempt transfer. Giving Money or using a credit card is a monetary gift, not a gift gun transfer.

[lorax3]

Edit: Okay, Had some more time to look at this.

27875.
(a) Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a firearm by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met:
(2) The transfer is between members of the same immediate family.

In order for the transfer to be "between members" of the same immediate family, the firearm probably has to start with a family member. If Dad in NV buys a firearm online and sends it to his son's FFL in CA, I don't see that as being [transferred] "between members of the same immediate family". The word "between" indicates the first party (Dad in NV) already has some ownership interest.

To be a Gift, the parent has to own that gun.

As worded, this appears incorrect. I see no reason you could not buy a firearm online and send it to someone as a gift. The person acquiring the firearm and preforming the 4473 and the DROS is the actual buyer, and still legal under the holding in Abramski.

The parent does not need to own the gun to be a gift, but in this case the parent needs to own the gun for the transfer to be roster exempt.

[ugimports]

Intrafamilial transfers of off roster guns in California between family members both living in California can be done on a simple form for $19 without the need of an FFL. It is when the family member lives out of state and wants to transfer an off roster gun into the state that the "gift" can't be given.

Intrafamilial transfers of off roster out of state guns need to be entered on the FFL's computer link to the DOJ. They used to be done under the only app open to them which was relics, antiques, etc. That option is no longer available and I don't believe there is an FFL in the state that can or would bring in an off roster gun for one family member to another??

what? I'm not sure I follow your post. As lorax3 stated above the issue is with the roster and not the gift part of the statement which who owns the gun first.

I have done several intrafamilial out of state transfers with no issues with off roster pistols from out of state so I'm unsure what you are saying in your 2nd paragraph or where you received that info. Perhaps your local FFL stopped doing it, but several in the state continue to process the legal transactions.

[kemasa]

Intrafamilial transfers of off roster out of state guns need to be entered on the FFL's computer link to the DOJ. They used to be done under the only app open to them which was relics, antiques, etc. That option is no longer available and I don't believe there is an FFL in the state that can or would bring in an off roster gun for one family member to another??

Huh? Have you looked at the current DROS system? The option is still there and if you ask the CA DOJ they will tell you how to do it.

The previous DROS system included "exempt", so it was not just abusing the C&R entry.

[RZ Operations]

Any more of you experienced FFL have any input or experience? One of the biggest struggle with the FFL sub forum is non FFL's attempting to answer my questions...

[CSACANNONEER]

Disclaimer: I am not a FFL but have worked for a few.

Paying for a gun and having a CA FFL order it would end up being transferred the same way as any firearm from the dealer's inventory. So, it would need to be rostered or roster exempt (without the OOS intrafamilial transfer being able to be used).

Intrafamilial transfers of off roster guns in California between family members both living in California can be done on a simple form for $19 without the need of an FFL. It is when the family member lives out of state and wants to transfer an off roster gun into the state that the "gift" can't be given.

Intrafamilial transfers of off roster out of state guns need to be entered on the FFL's computer link to the DOJ. They used to be done under the only app open to them which was relics, antiques, etc. That option is no longer available and I don't believe there is an FFL in the state that can or would bring in an off roster gun for one family member to another??

I don't believe that there is a competent CA FFL who would have any problem doing an interstate intrafamilial transfer of an off roster handgun or any transfer that was a "gift" either.

[ugimports]

Any more of you experienced FFL have any input or experience? One of the biggest struggle with the FFL sub forum is non FFL's attempting to answer my questions...

All the transactions I've done the parent owned the gun already. Also, usually on the gift paperwork the parent writes the make/model/serial number of the pistol which may or may not be doable in the scenario you're describing.

In a few cases where it was a "newer" gun it was in one of the states where the parents could cash/carry so they walked into a store (presumably) purchased it and asked that same FFL to ship it out with their gift letter, the same day, to their kid.

Obviously it may not be the cheapest route, but may be more inconvenient for your customer depending where their parents live.

[kemasa]

As said, for the intrafamilial transfer, the person giving it needs to own it, not just ordering it.

[RZ Operations]

Perfect. Thanks for the help!

Does the firearm actually need to be shipped? Example, dad in NV buys gun and then comes to CA to visit son and both of them come together to FFL to do the intrafamilial transfer?

[kemasa]

It can be delivered. That is easier since then you can see the person and their ID.

[RZ Operations]

It can be delivered. That is easier since then you can see the person and their ID.

Thanks Kemasa. Always appreciate your assistance.

[lorax3]

They both stated there was no way.

They are incorrect. Your son can legally buy a Glock 43 with the intent to gift it to you. Note however, it is illegal for you to pay your son for the Glock 43 in advance, he then buys it, does the paperwork at his ID FFL, takes possession, then sends it into CA. In that case he would not be the actual buyer when he takes possession in Idaho, and that is a no-no. (Basically the fact-pattern Abramski case)

I know Golden State Tactical is in Fair Oaks and Tracy Rifle and Pistol is in Tracy, they should be able to help you. There might be people closer, try searching here.

[kemasa]

??? The two I talked to, Wild Bill's in Elk Grove and Fairfield Pawn in Fairfield stated they would not do an intrafamilial transfer of an off roster gun from my son in Idaho to me here in Cali? They both stated there was no way.

Tell them to call the CA DOJ and ask since the CA DOJ will tell them how to do it. If they refuse, then they are useless.

[RZ Operations]

??? The two I talked to, Wild Bill's in Elk Grove and Fairfield Pawn in Fairfield stated they would not do an intrafamilial transfer of an off roster gun from my son in Idaho to me here in Cali? They both stated there was no way. The gun I was making plans for was the Glock 43 once it comes out. If there is an FFL that will handle it I just haven't run into them yet.

I'm sure any of the FFL's in this thread would handle the transfer. I'll do it. The two you have checked with are mis informed. My original topic came up as a customer brought it up and it had me thinking about it last night...