Paperwork organization

[Condorguns]

We file 4473 and DROS separate. All DROS paperwork stapled together as Condorguns mentioned.

our ad book has columns for 4473 and DROS number so we can easily pull either record and cross reference each other. For our own sanity we number our 4473s using the format

YYYYMMDD-HHMM

So right now if we ran a 4473 it would be:
20150408-1029

We're small so don't run into multiple 4473s occurring per second.

That makes it easy for us to sort and file in logical groups.

We've been through both ATF and DOJ audits and have basically pulled out all the files they wanted for a given date range.

We've had DOJ agents ask to see 4473s but we question why and what they are looking for and then they stop asking.

ATF never really cared to see a DROS.

In any audit you always want to provide the MINIMUM documentation / information required to satisfy the question. Why? If you provide extra they may see something that may trigger a line of questions that can end up in a finding that they otherwise would not have found.

If you really want to be proactive to make sure all your ducks are in a row, don't have the DOJ or ATF be the ones to tell you. Hire someone else if you can find them. Whether that be another dealer or possibly a service NRA or one of the other gun rights groups offers.

We are numbering a lot like you. We do a year and gun number version.

15-1000 would be an example. That number goes on the 4473, the bluebook, and the DROS packet.

I also agree with not giving them more than needed. I have had this bite me in the rear before. We store the old 4473's in one set of banker boxes and the state paperwork in a different set. That way if DOJ wants all the paper work for the last year, we can just pile banker boxes around him and let them go at it. If ATF wants theirs we just grab a different set of boxes. ATF is very happy when they don't have to slop through tons of state stuff to get to their forms.

[wchutt]

Thank you for the replys, what may seem like old hat, best practice for an experienced FFL can seem like a maze to new ones. Want to have everything as perfect as possible!

[acespawnshop]

I attached a .pdf of our Checklist that we use for gun transfers. Feel free to use it if you all want. But this helps with organizing paperwork and making sure all the steps have been followed. When we are done we have the checklist on top of our dros packet and 4473, then periodically a manager goes through them and triple checks that we had everything done correctly and then we file them away by date. Its easy in an audit with ATF and DOJ just to have everything available by date because they typically come in and ask for the A&D book and then you can have everything available by date and it wont take long to find what you are looking for.

[seiryoku]

"Deliver Gun, Sign and Thumbprint Approved"

I'm assuming that is on the DROS printed out after delivering the gun? Do you have to get a thumbprint on that one?

[ugimports]

"Deliver Gun, Sign and Thumbprint Approved"

I'm assuming that is on the DROS printed out after delivering the gun? Do you have to get a thumbprint on that one?

By law, no, but some are doing so to avoid audit issues. I'm not sure if anyone has been cited on that yet. We have not been getting additional thumbprints on delivery.

[RZ Operations]

By law, no, but some are doing so to avoid audit issues. I'm not sure if anyone has been cited on that yet. We have not been getting additional thumbprints on delivery.

I also do not get a thumbprint on delivery.

[acespawnshop]

We had a DOJ audit around the first of the year. We were asked to get thumbprint and signatures on the approval page. We didn't care to press the issue of it so we are just doing so.

[Condorguns]

"Deliver Gun, Sign and Thumbprint Approved"

I'm assuming that is on the DROS printed out after delivering the gun? Do you have to get a thumbprint on that one?

I thumb print on delivery also.

**edit

That reminds me. How you guys found a print pad that you like. I swear these things dry out faster and faster each time I order them.

[ASD1]

We use the Dactek EZ ID 500 and they seem to last a LONG time

[Tyke8319]

By law, no, but some are doing so to avoid audit issues. I'm not sure if anyone has been cited on that yet. We have not been getting additional thumbprints on delivery.

I also do not get a thumbprint on delivery.

We had a DOJ audit around the first of the year. We were asked to get thumbprint and signatures on the approval page. We didn't care to press the issue of it so we are just doing so.

[QUOTE=Condorguns;16151695]I thumb print on delivery also.

I thought this issue had raised its ugly head once before and it was determined that DOJ only required a thumb print on the initial DROS submission???

[ugimports]

I thumb print on delivery also.

**edit

That reminds me. How you guys found a print pad that you like. I swear these things dry out faster and faster each time I order them.

I'll have to check what I'm using but it has been going on for 6 years..it "feels" dry, but I have yet to find a customer that holds their finger on it for 5 seconds not able to get a nice print.

Note: Hold vs. smash down as many of them like to do. They don't have to press hard and despite each person telling me it's "dry" when they follow my instructions they are amazed the ink still prints..

My pad looks similar to this one:

https://www.dactekstore.com/store/product.php?productid=16137&cat=249&page=1

But I'm not sure if it is the same (not near it)..

[acespawnshop]

Condor- we use fingerprintpads.com as we are a pawn shop we used these more for pawns than guns but they seem to last a long time. We buy in bulk and they are around $3 a pad if I remember right.

[rbetts]

Hmmmm, my system works awesome, and is proprietary (if I told you, you'd become as efficient as I am and be a potential competitor). and for the thousands of guns we deal with each year, our audits are exception free. I will provide this helpful tip: bankers boxes hold 400 transactions in them and stack 4 high without failing, any higher and the bottom one will not hold the weight. A cloud based computer bound book is the only way to go, and a numbering system that is based on the gun and not the DROS will make for fast lookups. We stopped using the hand written bound books several years ago and haven't looked back.

Hope this helps,

[ugimports]

I'm guessing you do box # and transaction # for your 4473 numbering .

And yes, cloud based bound book is the way to go. That's what we do and Ctrl-F is our friend .. If we used solely banker boxes that method might work for us. We fit a variable amount of transactions per banker box that we archive. We have fireproof cabinets that we store the most current year's worth of transactions.

[wchutt]

Hmmmm, my system works awesome, and is proprietary (if I told you, you'd become as efficient as I am and be a potential competitor). and for the thousands of guns we deal with each year, our audits are exception free. I will provide this helpful tip: bankers boxes hold 400 transactions in them and stack 4 high without failing, any higher and the bottom one will not hold the weight. A cloud based computer bound book is the only way to go, and a numbering system that is based on the gun and not the DROS will make for fast lookups. We stopped using the hand written bound books several years ago and haven't looked back.

Hope this helps,

Ha! My transaction count last year could fill about a tenth of a bankers box, fear me!
I have the FFL to do enggraving, transactions are mainly family and friends, but I want to make sure I am doing every thing correctly and efficiently.