Question on sin

[Decoligny]

Quote: "Someone replied that there are other principles over and above the Law that define sin. So, there are sins that are not in the Bible because they "violate" Biblical principles. Then the person says that what is a sin to one may not be a sin to another."

It's not just biblical principles or standards, but who's standards? Its defined by God the Father, it's His "truth." What God the Father communicates to us and what he wants us to understand that we are born sinner, we are sinful by nature and our sinful acts or when we act out in sin is due to our sinful nature. He does not classify or put a measuring stick to what sin is worse, from lying, steeling, murder, anger, rape in God eyes it's all the same.

As fallen humans we wouldn't see that all sin is equally the same, how can lying be measured equally as murder that doesn't make sense to us?

What sin to you isn't sin to me, that's our human thinking and not seeing it in the truth of what God the Father tells us. Being sinful by nature
we have sin full appetites so why would our sinful nature admit that the very sin it likes to feed on admit it is bad, or sinful? That's also man becoming it's own god and defining it's own truth to what is sin and what is not. If a man rapes or murder a person are we going to accept it and let the person go when he tells the judge, well I don't think rape or murder is bad in my own eyes so I shouldn't be charged with murder or rape? Of course we have to judge that by a standard because those are the laws of the land.



Continue your relationship with the messiah (Jesus), but again I don't know your faith and beliefs you have because you stated that you came from "law based religion" which I'm not sure what that is or what you believe, but I can for sure pray for you that God the Father will direct you through your journey and that you have a rich relationship with Him (which makes things more clear), which involves a lot of up's and downs and trials like any other relationship.

Sin means missing the mark that God has set. You didn't fully meet his standard.

Look at it from a shooter's point of view. There is only one true bullseye on a target 1000 yards away. A lie might represent a miss of the bullseye by 1/4", whereas murder might be represented with a shot 180 degrees from the bulleye, essentially shooting in the total opposite direction.

Each is still a miss, because God doesn't grade on a curve. There is only the 10 ring, everything else is zero. He does however allow someone else to take the shot for you. Forgiveness of sin, through Jesus sacrifice allows anyone who accepts him as Lord to score a perfect bulleye. We meet God's standard by accepting Jesus's perfection as our own.

I am the Righteousness of God, in Christ. If you are in Christ, you are seen by God to meet his standard of perfect righteousness.

[Decoligny]

I actually do not think there is a canopy standard that we can really compare too. What might be considered a sin by someone, say dancing, would not be considered by someone else... does it mean one is right? No. I believe that your convictions are what your standard is and we always end up imposing a standard on others... when in reality its mostly opinion based and turns into an argument on how one's opinion isnt valid.

The standards are the Laws which God gave us... but it doesnt stop there... where we should draw our standards from should be biblically based. The deeper the relationship, the more our ways become aligned with the father and the more black and white things become. There is not one equation for christianity just to say; we shouldnt kill thats one of the ten... but what about soldiers on the ground fighting for our country?
Standards are basically a line... and the deeper we grow closer to God. The clearer that line becomes.

We also need to be cognizant of what the scriptures ACTUALLY said when they were written.

"Thou Shalt Not Kill" is what we say in English.

The Hebrew is more appropriately translated to "Thou Shalt Do No Murder".

Soldiers on the ground fighting other soldiers are not Murdering innocents.

[ILLzKzA]

Sin means missing the mark that God has set. You didn't fully meet his standard.

Look at it from a shooter's point of view. There is only one true bullseye on a target 1000 yards away. A lie might represent a miss of the bullseye by 1/4", whereas murder might be represented with a shot 180 degrees from the bulleye, essentially shooting in the total opposite direction.

Each is still a miss, because God doesn't grade on a curve. There is only the 10 ring, everything else is zero. He does however allow someone else to take the shot for you. Forgiveness of sin, through Jesus sacrifice allows anyone who accepts him as Lord to score a perfect bulleye. We meet God's standard by accepting Jesus's perfection as our own.

I am the Righteousness of God, in Christ. If you are in Christ, you are seen by God to meet his standard of perfect righteousness.

^^^

I totally agree to what you said, I was just trying to explain from what you highlighted in to my response was that we as humans don't understand how God see's sin just how Jesus said lusting towards a women is the same as committing adultery or how hating your brother is the same as murder. Even though a person may not act out in physical sin of adultery, just even by thinking and having sexual fantasy of a women you see is equally the same as doing the actual physical act of adultery and just like you mention we miss the mark all the time.

I Agree from what God tells us that we are justified by faith and not by the works of the law, because the law was a tutor to direct us towards Christ, because the law is a big burden to try to keep on our own because it's totally impossible to keep. Jesus didn't come to destroy the law but to full fill it, He was perfect and only a perfect man with no sin which only can be God in the flesh. When Jesus said "it is finished" (when he was on the cross) he completed what he had to do here on earth and now we are under a new law being the "Law of Grace."

[71MUSTY]

God does not love us when we don't sin and hate us when we do.

God loves us because he made us.

[Not a Cook]

Wow... lots of good information in this thread! Question to Sailormilan2 - has your question been answered sufficiently?

I'd like to note that Decoligny hit the nail on the head with what he wrote about the nature of sin being like target archery. We all miss the mark. Our ONLY hope is to have Christ's perfect bulls-eye shot accounted to our score. We just can't hit the bulls-eye on our own. Every person stands condemned in God's sight already because of our sins, and the only way any person can be saved is by Christ. Consider:

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:17-18 (NKJV)

That said, another member mentioned all sins being the same, which simply isn't true. I'd like to caution everyone about any such statements. It's becoming relatively popular to hear preachers today teach that "all sins are equal", but this simply isn't taught in the Scriptures. As has been pointed out here, all sins miss the mark. The ultimate penalty merited by any sin is death. Unforgiven sin will result in destruction. However, to continue the allegory used by Decoligny of an archery match: some sins miss by a mile, some by an inch. None of them hit the bullseye, but some are obviously worse shots than others. Although each one of them condemns us in the sight of God because we don't meet the standard of holy perfection that God has set, they simply aren't equal. Common sense tells us this. A "little white lie" told by the nice lady down the street isn't equal to Hitler's murdering millions of Jews. They're different. Either one is enough to result in damnation apart from Christ's atonement, but they're miles apart. The Scriptures have multiple passages that indicate that God does not consider all sins the same, including these passages:

the greater sin. John 19:11 (NKJV) Please note that the Lord Himself noted here "the greater sin", implying that all sins are not equal.

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 1 John 5:16-17 (NKJV) Note that John distinguishes between two types of sins - sin that leads to death vs. sin that does not lead to death (speaking here of physical death, not eternal destruction).

a great sin, and have made for themselves a god of gold! Exodus 32:30-31 (NKJV)

harlotry more corrupt Ezekiel 23:11 (NKJV)

And I won't quote the whole thing here due to length, but Romans 1 clearly implies some sins are worse than others. There are many other passages that would further reinforce this, but I hope these will suffice for now. I caution my brothers in the Lord: don't fall into the trap of believing "all sins are equal" - all sorts of bad things use that fallacious thought as a springboard, often unnoticed.

[swilson]

If God created the earth and man, and created man in his image, when how is sin even an option if God is perfect?

[Not a Cook]

If God created the earth and man, and created man in his image, when how is sin even an option if God is perfect?

There are a lot of details that I won't go into here unless you indicate you're REALLY interested, but here are the basic points that it is important to address in order to answer your question:

So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.Genesis 1:27 (NKJV) This does NOT mean that man was created just like God. We were made in His image, in His likeness. To learn what "made in His own image" actually means, consider this passage:

Mark 12:13-17 (NKJV) Notice that the denarius (a Roman coin) bore the image of Caesar. Sound familiar? That coin wasn't Caesar; in fact, it wasn't much like Caesar at all - it simply bore Caesar's image. The denarius didn't have flesh and blood. It didn't have volition. It didn't even have human life. It was a simple, flat coin - but it had Caesar's image imprinted upon it. Why is this important? Because a lot of folks assume a lot of things about what God having made man in His own image actually means. It doesn't mean that Adam was just like God - Adam obviously wasn't just like God. In addition to God being sinless, He's also holy and righteous and perfect and He discerns between (and judges between) good and evil. Adam was created without sin, but Adam was neither holy nor righteous nor truly perfect, and before the Fall Adam did not have "the knowledge of good and evil". Adam bore God's image, but just as the denarius wasn't really much like Caesar yet it bore Caesar's image, so Adam wasn't really much like God yet he bore God's image. That said, please be careful not to read more into what Adam having been made in God's image means than what the Scriptures actually state.

In Genesis 3 we have the record of the serpent (Satan) tempting Eve by misquoting what God actually said, and deceiving her. Eve and Adam then sin against God by eating from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and as a result Adam then knew "good and evil". Adam chose to disobey God - he chose to sin - just as every man and woman since have done (except for Christ who Himself is absolutely perfect). As a sidenote, pay attention to the lies of the serpent in Genesis 3 - part of the temptation was the serpent claiming that man would "be like God" as a result of eating the forbidden fruit. The reason that temptation was any kind of enticement was because Adam and Eve were not "like God". Yes, they bore His image, but that does NOT mean they were like Him.

All that said, yes - man was made in God's image. Yes - God is perfect. However, man having been made in God's image does NOT mean that man was perfect - in fact, man was NOT perfect, as clearly demonstrated by Adam and Eve sinning against God.

Does that clear things up at all?

[ILLzKzA]

Wow... lots of good information in this thread! Question to Sailormilan2 - has your question been answered sufficiently?

I'd like to note that Decoligny hit the nail on the head with what he wrote about the nature of sin being like target archery. We all miss the mark. Our ONLY hope is to have Christ's perfect bulls-eye shot accounted to our score. We just can't hit the bulls-eye on our own. Every person stands condemned in God's sight already because of our sins, and the only way any person can be saved is by Christ. Consider:

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:17-18 (NKJV)

That said, another member mentioned all sins being the same, which simply isn't true. I'd like to caution everyone about any such statements. It's becoming relatively popular to hear preachers today teach that "all sins are equal", but this simply isn't taught in the Scriptures. As has been pointed out here, all sins miss the mark. The ultimate penalty merited by any sin is death. Unforgiven sin will result in destruction. However, to continue the allegory used by Decoligny of an archery match: some sins miss by a mile, some by an inch. None of them hit the bullseye, but some are obviously worse shots than others. Although each one of them condemns us in the sight of God because we don't meet the standard of holy perfection that God has set, they simply aren't equal. Common sense tells us this. A "little white lie" told by the nice lady down the street isn't equal to Hitler's murdering millions of Jews. They're different. Either one is enough to result in damnation apart from Christ's atonement, but they're miles apart. The Scriptures have multiple passages that indicate that God does not consider all sins the same, including these passages:

Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.” John 19:11 (NKJV) Please note that the Lord Himself noted here "the greater sin", implying that all sins are not equal.

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 1 John 5:16-17 (NKJV) Note that John distinguishes between two types of sins - sin that leads to death vs. sin that does not lead to death (speaking here of physical death, not eternal destruction).

Now it came to pass on the next day that Moses said to the people, “You have committed a great sin. So now I will go up to the Lord; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” Then Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Oh, these people have committed a great sin, and have made for themselves a god of gold! Exodus 32:30-31 (NKJV)

“Now although her sister Oholibah saw this, she became more corrupt in her lust than she, and in her harlotry more corrupt than her sister’s harlotry. Ezekiel 23:11 (NKJV)

And I won't quote the whole thing here due to length, but Romans 1 clearly implies some sins are worse than others. There are many other passages that would further reinforce this, but I hope these will suffice for now. I caution my brothers in the Lord: don't fall into the trap of believing "all sins are equal" - all sorts of bad things use that fallacious thought as a springboard, often unnoticed.

I guess you are directing this at me, yes I can be certainly wrong to say that all sin are equal in Gods eye (i'm not a preacher either), and willing to re-think my theology on that and I also believe us Christians we don't always interpret doctrines correctly, we are all students of the word and still learning 2 Timothy 3:16 'All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"

I'm not sure what fallacious mean and I don't consider myself in a trap or am i trying to trap people, I just consider it as a misunderstanding on my part, is it a major issue or minor issue for me? I see it as a minor issue I can always ask the the Spirit to teach me and correct me. That's least of my worries in my life right now, I'm more concern being healed and understanding how the Father loves me due to my brokeness and trials i'm facing right now in my life.

We are all on the same both, we are all brothers in Christ, we are all learning, growing, sometimes we have the knowledge but the knowledge hasn't gone to the heart ( Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies).

[FLDWRX]

If God created the earth and man, and created man in his image, when how is sin even an option if God is perfect?

PROMETHEUS.

[Not a Cook]

I guess you are directing this at me, yes I can be certainly wrong to say that all sin are equal in Gods eye (i'm not a preacher either), and willing to re-think my theology on that and I also believe us Christians we don't always interpret doctrines correctly, we are all students of the word and still learning 2 Timothy 3:16 'All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"

I'm not sure what fallacious mean and I don't consider myself in a trap or am i trying to trap people, I just consider it as a misunderstanding on my part, is it a major issue or minor issue for me? I see it as a minor issue I can always ask the the Spirit to teach me and correct me. That's least of my worries in my life right now, I'm more concern being healed and understanding how the Father loves me due to my brokeness and trials i'm facing right now in my life.

We are all on the same both, we are all brothers in Christ, we are all learning, growing, sometimes we have the knowledge but the knowledge hasn't gone to the heart ( Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies).

ILLzKzA - I ask for you to forgive me if I have offended you; such was not my intention in the least. I commend you for being open to receiving correction from the Scriptures. Unfortunately, not all brothers are so open to re-examining the Scriptures and testing every doctrine to see what the Scriptures actually teach. I understand it was not your intent to spread incorrect doctrine; however, I chose to address that particular teaching because it is spreading like wildfire and needs to be corrected quickly because it is doing much damage to the body of Christ. Rather than listing specific examples (because I do not wish to even repeat some of the evil work that has gone on because of this unscriptural teaching), suffice it to say that "all sins are equal" has led to much damage in the body of Christ in recent years.

Again, I commend you for being willing to receive correction, and always encourage all followers of Christ to be like the Bereans who searched the Scriptures daily to verify whether what they were being taught was true (ref. Acts 17:11).

[swilson]

Ok I understand the image part, however I don't understand why a perfect being would create in imperfect world with imperfect inhabitants, unless it was by design. But if that was purposeful, why? Like Michelangelo making picture out of macaroni and glitter.

[Not a Cook]

Ok I understand the image part, however I don't understand why a perfect being would create in imperfect world with imperfect inhabitants, unless it was by design. But if that was purposeful, why? Like Michelangelo making picture out of macaroni and glitter.

There's an even BIGGER question than what you asked. Why would God create man, knowing that man would sin, and that ultimately God would have to sacrifice His own beloved Son in order to atone for man's sin and redeem His chosen people to Himself? Why would God do that?!

Why did God create anything at all, knowing that His beloved Son would have to suffer and die in order to complete God's perfect plan of redemption for the saints?

Let me qualify my answer: only God Himself can fully answer this question. Only He knows the full answer. Consider 1 Corinthians 2:11 (NKJV),

For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

and also consider Isaiah 55:8-9 (NKJV),


Having stated that qualification, here's what I do know, because God has clearly revealed these things to us through the Scriptures.

- First, because God loves us. Consider John 3:16 (NKJV),
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
God was motivated by love. I must point out, however, that God's love is far beyond man's love, and we shouldn't confuse the two.

- Second, because it pleased God to do so. Consider Colossians 1:19 (NKJV),
For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

- Third, ultimately we know that God created the world for His glory, and that He uses the foolish and weak things of this world to glorify Himself. Consider 1 Corinthians 1:18-31 (NKJV),
But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence

- Fourth, there are some things that it simply is not our place to question. I won't copy it all here, but I encourage you to read Job and pay special attention to God's response to Job in chapters 40 and 41.

All that said, we are His creation, and as such we can ask questions and seek answers, but we must not suggest in any way He is wrong or that His reason wasn't valid. This brings to mind Isaiah 29:16 (NKJV),


So, swilson, obviously I'm not the one who can fully answer your question WHY God did what He did, but we can see some of the reasoning in the above passages. I hope that helps.

[hasserl]

First of all, my background is that from a rigid, law based religion.
Recently in a discussion, re sin, a comment was made that the Law defines sin, and sin is the transgression of the Law. Paul says that the Law points out sin.
Someone replied that there are other principles over and above the Law that define sin. So, there are sins that are not in the Bible because they "violate" Biblical principles. Then the person says that what is a sin to one may not be a sin to another.
If that is the case, then how is one judged? Does that mean there is no standard?

From my perspective, sin is not just deeds (or lack thereof) sin is a condition, a sickness or illness that infects our entire being. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. How is one judged? That is simple, if one places their trust in Christ then they are judged as Christ, they have no sin. Christ has taken their sin upon himself and dealt with it via the atoning sacrifice of his death and resurrection. Apart from Christ one is judged against perfection, good luck with that.

[hasserl]

i thought this was the standard?

Ten Commandments:

1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.

Careful with that. Technically the 10 Commandments (or 10 Words) were given to the Israelites, not to everybody else. They were just the beginning of an entire set of laws and codes by which Old Testament Israel was to live as the chosen people of God in the only true theocracy.

There are 3 uses of the Law, as a curb to help keep men in check; as a mirror to show us our sin; and as a guide. But, with that in mind, also understand that the Law doesn't save, it only condemns us. Nobody is saved by the law. IT is by the Gospel that we are saved. Properly distinguishing between the 2 is crucial to understanding the Christian faith.

[WASR10]

Careful with that. Technically the 10 Commandments (or 10 Words) were given to the Israelites, not to everybody else. They were just the beginning of an entire set of laws and codes by which Old Testament Israel was to live as the chosen people of God in the only true theocracy.

There are 3 uses of the Law, as a curb to help keep men in check; as a mirror to show us our sin; and as a guide. But, with that in mind, also understand that the Law doesn't save, it only condemns us. Nobody is saved by the law. IT is by the Gospel that we are saved. Properly distinguishing between the 2 is crucial to understanding the Christian faith.

This is very well stated.

Sent from my tappy device thingy