The Bible

[Barang]

ok, i don't get it. the way you say it, Christianity sounds like a thinly veiled threat. bow down or you go straight to hell. so if one is only bowing down to avoid hell then he is not freely making the decision to be a christian instead its more like he is being forced so can he be a true christian? its like a guy saying get in my car and lets go for a ride, the people he asks might say no, but if he ask them to get in the car while he is holding a gun they will most likely get in the car. can you be considered a christian if the only reason you started calling yourself a christian is to avoid hell?

Yes it is. Christianity is exclusive but the invitation is all inclusive.

Proverbs 1:7New King James Version (NKJV)
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Luke 12:4-5New King James Version (NKJV)Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

Hebrews 10:30New King James Version (NKJV)[b]Hebrews 12:29New King James Version (NKJV)
29 For our God is a consuming fire.

[eb47]

has anyone ever thought about this stuff for other than what the Bible says? has anyone ever thought about the personal aspect of a relationship with a "creator". I can't stand it when people quote the bible for their every thought. you guys sound like little robots doing as commanded. it should be a personal experience, something not dictated by the words of questionable individuals that has been filtered by the Catholic church in order to get money in exchange for peoples salvation.

i'm all for a relationship with a "God" or "creator" but to quote the bible with every sentence or thought IMO shows a lack of personal experience. anything can be taught or read, but a true relationship will lead to experience which is worth more than 1000 Bibles.

To be honest, I agree with you for the most part. Knowledge will get you so far with God. We've learned that with the scribes and Pharasee's. Even with Saul, until he had a personal experience with God himself. When I had my first in depth personal experience with Jesus I knew that there was God but didn't know him personally. I also agree that we should know scripture and show ourselves approved and being able to distinguish truth from theory. What's more important? Well...Jesus asked his disciples what they wanted. They didn't ask to know all scripture or healing powers. They asked to be taught how to pray. Prayer is our power connection to the Almighty God himself. IMHO

[Barang]

has anyone ever thought about this stuff for other than what the Bible says? has anyone ever thought about the personal aspect of a relationship with a "creator". I can't stand it when people quote the bible for their every thought. you guys sound like little robots doing as commanded. it should be a personal experience, something not dictated by the words of questionable individuals that has been filtered by the Catholic church in order to get money in exchange for peoples salvation.

i'm all for a relationship with a "God" or "creator" but to quote the bible with every sentence or thought IMO shows a lack of personal experience. anything can be taught or read, but a true relationship will lead to experience which is worth more than 1000 Bibles.

Isaiah 55:8-9New King James Version (NKJV)

[Lineman101]

Let me just say that the Bible is the way that our Creator speaks to us. Because His word is unchanging, it is the same for all generations. Thus it was written for us. Prayer is the means by which we communicate to God. Prayer is not to get what we want in this life. Prayer is to conform us to His image. To love what He loves and to hate what He hates.

My relationship with Christ is more than a thousand words and I would not exchange it for all of the world. Jesus is as real to me as the skin on my bones. It is His promise of consummation in redemption of his people and the world that stirs my heart. It is the price He paid on Calvary that is worth more than all the books of the world could hold in words. A relationship with the Creator is more than a supernatural experience; it is a real, living, loving, channel of trust between a man and God.

[echoThreeOneSix]

When you surrender yourself to Christ, He is now your Lord and no longer you as lord. That's why His Word becomes our way of life. Our thoughts and heart now belong to Him and we must live according to His commandments.

that's my beef entirely, who says it's his word? who says the Catholics back in the day didn't rewrite the text for personal gains?

[waveslayer]

that's my beef entirely, who says it's his word? who says the Catholics back in the day didn't rewrite the text for personal gains?

I have seen a lot of miss information on here and scripture quoting. Just to set the record straight man didn't choose to disobey God in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve did. So therefor all man was lost because they were cast out thus when we were finally born we were not in the presence of God.

Also to answer your question about changing the Bible, etc... that is why God had prophets and always uses prophets. AMOS 3:7. Prophets clarify these things and the Bible doesn't contain everything. There are a L to of missing parts in it. If I remember correctly there are 27 mentioned books that are not in the Bible. Could be a lot less but going off my memory that's the amount. Maybe 13...

[echoThreeOneSix]

I have seen a lot of miss information on here and scripture quoting. Just to set the record straight man didn't choose to disobey God in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve did. So therefor all man was lost because they were cast out thus when we were finally born we were not in the presence of God.

Also to answer your question about changing the Bible, etc... that is why God had prophets and always uses prophets. AMOS 3:7. Prophets clarify these things and the Bible doesn't contain everything. There are a L to of missing parts in it. If I remember correctly there are 27 mentioned books that are not in the Bible. Could be a lot less but going off my memory that's the amount. Maybe 13...

but see your using the possibly corrupted text, to justify the sayings of the corrupted text. does that make sense to anyone?

I really don't wish to continue because I hate to think that I may cause someone to stumble on his path to God. As much as I disagree with the beliefs of people, I can think of nothing worse than to remove that peace of mind from someone.

[Barang]

that's my beef entirely, who says it's his word? who says the Catholics back in the day didn't rewrite the text for personal gains?

I'm not an expert but God is fair and just, it's unthinkable of Him to judge us according to a corrupt bible.
There are different translations such as KJV, NKJV, AMP, NLT, ESV and others. When you read them, although some wordings are different but the contents is still the same. For example: Thou shall not kill, others translation will have "Thou shall not murder." Now, does that in anyway corrupt of make the Bible unreliable?

[echoThreeOneSix]

I'm not an expert but God is fair and just, it's unthinkable of Him to judge us according to a corrupt bible.
There are different translations such as KJV, NKJV, AMP, NLT, ESV and others. When you read them, although some wordings are different but the contents is still the same. For example: Thou shall not kill, others translation will have "Thou shall not murder." Now, does that in anyway corrupt of make the Bible unreliable?

i'm not talking between different versions of English. i'm talking about the Hebrew to Greek to Arabic or whatever other languages it went to before it became English.

[Barang]

i'm not talking between different versions of English. i'm talking about the Hebrew to Greek to Arabic or whatever other languages it went to before it became English.

My mistake but my answer will still be the same. God is fair and just to judge us according to a corrupt Bible. Be it translated from Greek to Latin to Aramaic to English.
Somebody who's educated about the translations will be able to explain it.

[echoThreeOneSix]

My mistake but my answer will still be the same. God is fair and just to judge us according to a corrupt Bible. Be it translated from Greek to Latin to Aramaic to English.
Somebody who's educated about the translations will be able to explain it.

which is what I believe entirely. I don't think an all powerful god would limit his ability to save his "children" to believing in his son. I think that is man's view of requiring a sacrifice in order to be "saved". I can't believe that something so holy, or all knowing would stoop to our level of understand in order to "save" us. especially when he created us, with the flaw of free will. if you want to go even further, he knew we would screw up. he is all knowing after all. so he created us knowing that we were going to screw up and have the option of "choosing" hell. which in itself is kind of screwed up. I can't see an all just, all loving being acting like this or being this twisted.

[Barang]

which is what I believe entirely. I don't think an all powerful god would limit his ability to save his "children" to believing in his son. I think that is man's view of requiring a sacrifice in order to be "saved". I can't believe that something so holy, or all knowing would stoop to our level of understand in order to "save" us. especially when he created us, with the flaw of free will. if you want to go even further, he knew we would screw up. he is all knowing after all. so he created us knowing that we were going to screw up and have the option of "choosing" hell. which in itself is kind of screwed up. I can't see an all just, all loving being acting like this or being this twisted.

That is why the "Sacrificed" ( Jesus death ) was so great that the penalty for rejecting Him is equally or greater in value.
God took all the necessary steps to save us from hell. He provided us an escaped through His Son. Why not take it? What does hell have that you want to go there? I'm asking with all seriousness.

[mossy]

That is why the "Sacrificed" ( Jesus death ) was so great that the penalty for rejecting Him is equally or greater in value.
God took all the necessary steps to save us from hell. He provided us an escaped through His Son. Why not take it? What does hell have that you want to go there? I'm asking with all seriousness.

i don't believe in the christian idea of hell. the teaching of impermanence is a big part of Buddhism. there is no eternal punishment. we do have our own version of hell and it sucks, but like all things it is not permanent. you can find the correct path in hell and work your way out.

[Not a Cook]

which is what I believe entirely. I don't think an all powerful god would limit his ability to save his "children" to believing in his son. I think that is man's view of requiring a sacrifice in order to be "saved". I can't believe that something so holy, or all knowing would stoop to our level of understand in order to "save" us. especially when he created us, with the flaw of free will. if you want to go even further, he knew we would screw up. he is all knowing after all. so he created us knowing that we were going to screw up and have the option of "choosing" hell. which in itself is kind of screwed up. I can't see an all just, all loving being acting like this or being this twisted.

A few points:

1) The Bible is trustworthy. If you have sincere questions about its reliability, internal cohesiveness, historicity, or infallibility please let me know and I'll be happy to help you find the answers to your questions. I assure you it's reliable, true, and trustworthy, but I've studied it and its history for myself. Have you? If you really doubt the Bible, please consider that it is made up of 66 books written in multiple languages by over 40 authors over more than a millenium, and most of those authors never met and were from different walks of life. If the Bible isn't what it claims to be, it should be easy to find internal contradictions between those 66 books and their teachings. However, there are no such contradictions.

2) Regarding translation issues: what, exactly, are you concerned about? We have literally many thousands of ancient manuscripts that pre-date any influence of any denomination, including that of the Roman Catholic Church. It is relatively easy to verify whether any given passage from any modern translation is faithful and accurate to those ancient manuscripts by simply checking it for yourself. I check translations of specific passages fairly regularly. If this were really a concern of yours, why don't you check them for yourself.

3) Frankly, you misunderstand the gospel of Christ and God's purpose for the creation. God is holy and righteous. His standard is righteous perfection. Anything missing that perfect standard is sin. The rules include "the wages of sin is death". The laws include the ten commandments. I guarantee you that you've broken most (if not all) of the ten commandments, as have we all. As such, you and I deserve death and destruction because we've sinned against God. However, in addition to being holy and just, God is also patient, merciful, and gracious. Even though we deserve death and destruction, God has not cast us hopelessly or helplessly away, even though we deserve such casting away. Instead, He has CHOSEN to love us with an indescribable love whereby He sent His beloved Son to become the propitiation for our sins by bearing ours sins and suffering God's wrath which we deserved. God did not "stack the deck against us"; instead, He has given us the only possible chance for salvation and He paid the ultimate price to give us the chance. He calls us to repent and follow Christ, becoming His disciple, and dying to ourselves and living for Christ instead. He promises eternal life for those who follow Him. We've stacked the deck against ourselves; to claim God stacked the deck against us qualifies as the ultimate in victim mentality. God has graciously and lovingly sacrificed His Son - really think about what that means and what it cost Him to do so. He isn't an unfair judge; instead He is the perfect Judge (after all, "god" means "judge") who will not fail to mete out justice for sin. Thankfully, though, in His love, kindness, grace, and mercy He sent His beloved Son to pay our penalty in our place and promises to credit Christ's righteousness (instead of our sin) to us if we follow Christ - we just have to accept the terms of that payment so that it is applied to our account. The "end game" is that Christ is redeeming a special people to Himself who will truly love Him and with whom He will fellowship with in love for all eternity. Christ didn't teach men to just "pray some prayer asking for salvation"; instead, Christ called men to follow Him, become His disciples, and loose our lives for His sake and the sake of His gospel.

He isn't twisted; He is holy, just, righteous, merciful, gracious, loving, and kind. It is difficult to fathom why God has chosen "to stoop so low as to love" wretches like us. However, it is utter foolishness to reject God's call to follow Christ and receive the salvation He offers. We obviously can choose to reject Him, but anyone who chooses to reject Him does so in foolish pride and if they continue in that rejection of Christ will ultimately receive their just due via destruction in the lake of fire and brimstone.

[echoThreeOneSix]

That is why the "Sacrificed" ( Jesus death ) was so great that the penalty for rejecting Him is equally or greater in value.
God took all the necessary steps to save us from hell. He provided us an escaped through His Son. Why not take it? What does hell have that you want to go there? I'm asking with all seriousness.

I believe that if God is truly as loving and just as you all say that we are misunderstanding God entirely. I don't think that anything would be required to enter "heaven" although I don't necessarily believe in the "heave and hell" thing.

It's just a messed up story. He created us, knowing that we would sin. Even when he required perfection... isn't that sort of cruel? If that isn't he knew that he would for some reason have to kill his son in order to cover a people who he created with the ability to sin in the first place....

I take a lot from the new age perspective that we are here to gain experiences to reach spiritual maturity or some **** like that... that's about as deep as i'll get with complete strangers.

i don't believe in the christian idea of hell. the teaching of impermanence is a big part of Buddhism. there is no eternal punishment. we do have our own version of hell and it sucks, but like all things it is not permanent. you can find the correct path in hell and work your way out.

i'm more along this line than the tradition vision of hell.