The Bible

[mossy]

Hi mossy,
I would also ask for a source. I don't see any evidence for Buddha before about 600BC. Granted, the Human Potential message has been around a long time. Maybe Buddha just turned the Human Potential message into an organized religion? They are closely related...

You are using earthy boundaries on something that transcends earth. The lotus sutra talks about a infinite stream of Buddhas being around for unquantifiable amounts of time. A Buddha can choose the world and time he is born into.

[colossians323]

You are using earthy boundaries on something that transcends earth. The lotus sutra talks about a infinite stream of Buddhas being around for unquantifiable amounts of time. A Buddha can choose the world and time he is born into.

so you would agree that there is no documented evidence of "a buddha" Until around 600 BC?

[mossy]

Source? Any corroborative evidence for the existence of any Buddha?

Corroborative evidence? Don't Christians always get upset when non christians always use that word when asking proof for god lol?

Prove any Buddha existed..........ok. We knowGautama Buddha lived here, you can even visit the places where his remains rest. The place where he gained enlightenment is a huge temple now still run by the sanga he formed.

And its not my branch of Buddhism, but some believe H.H the 14th Dalai lama is a manifestation of Avalokiteśvara. He is living in exile because the Chinese want him dead, but he is still active and lives in Nepal. You can watch videos of him, or even visit his official website run by his monks.

[mossy]

so you would agree that there is no documented evidence of "a buddha" Until around 600 BC?

No i would not agree. We already knows Buddhas transcend our world and time.

[colossians323]

Corroborative evidence? Don't Christians always get upset when non christians always use that word when asking proof for god lol?

But a buddha is just a man no more special than you or I, I am not sure why abuddha has any importance in your life. Aren't you as enlightened as the dali lama? He flies around, uses modern glasses, modern conveniences, and eats at luxurious banquets.

Prove any Buddha existed..........ok. We knowGautama Buddha lived here, you can even visit the places where his remains rest. The place where he gained enlightenment is a huge temple now still run by the sanga he formed.

Anyone can be a buddha, what makes a buddha special that you would hold them up to a higher level than yourself?

And its not my branch of Buddhism, but some believe H.H the 14th Dalai lama is a manifestation of Avalokiteśvara. He is living in exile because the Chinese want him dead, but he is still active and lives in Nepal. You can watch videos of him, or even visit his official website run by his monks.

But he is just a man living on the backs of the wealthy. What makes him special. He reminds me of the pope. Here is a honest read on the dalai lama

There’s not a thing wrong with what the Dalai Lama campaigns for, or with his fundraising — and here’s where I want to be clear — so long as he’s honest about how the funds are going to be used. None of the Dalai Lama’s raised hundreds of millions of dollars benefit Tibetan citizens in the slightest. He gives most of it to unrelated charities, and that’s a fine thing; but his only prerogative in Tibet is to get himself back to Potala. The Chinese already do everything for the Tibetan citizenry; there is no work for the Dalai Lama to do in that vein.

The rest of the money he raises go to his pet project: metaphysical spirituality. In many ways, he’s no different from Deepak Chopra; except that instead of misstating quantum physics, he allows his donors to misperceive his mission. The Dalai Lama is a highly successful self-help and metaphysical author. He’s written The Art of Happiness: A Handbook for Living, How to Practice: The Way to a Meaningful Life, How to See Yourself As You Really Are, The Dalai Lama’s Little Book of Inner Peace: The Essential Life and Teachings, The Universe in a Single Atom: The Convergence of Science and Spirituality (the most Deepak Chopra-like of his books), Becoming Enlightened, Healing Anger: The Power of Patience from a Buddhist Perspective, An Open Heart: Practicing Compassion in Everyday Life, and dozens of others. He does not need your money.

Link

Just in case you didn't agree with the source, here is one by forbes

You see, the Dalai Lama hails from a system of formal class divisions. Not only does he come from the monk-class which sits atop the Tibetan social pyramid, he is the number one monk. This is a society in which inequality is the norm, and social status is determined at birth.

After the Dalai Lama fled into exile, he lived a life of celebrity, partly due to the frightening rise of China, partly due to the West’s obsession with Eastern culture. He did a great deal of good, of course, and he worked tirelessly to form a government-in-exile, to spread interfaith dialogue, and many other good acts which required his time and perseverance. But the Dalai Lama did not want for anything. He did not live the struggle of a working or middle class family, yet he chooses to chide those who do.

I am not attacking, but just like the so called Christian faith healers constantly chasing after our dollars on the television, how is this flim flam man any different than those flim flam men?

Why is it people choose to follow someone like him and become cultish about it?

[colossians323]

No i would not agree. We already knows Buddhas transcend our world and time.

How so, anyone could be a buddha, and yet they're just mere men. nothing special. The prince who started this religion is still in his grave. He transcended nothing

[mossy]

How so, anyone could be a buddha, and yet they're just mere men. nothing special. The prince who started this religion is still in his grave. He transcended nothing

I am going to hold off being offended at your statements because you probably don't know much about Buddhism..........first, like i said Dalai lama is not my branch of Buddhism. I don't like the class system within it's tradition so i don't practice it. I do know from a young age he has been devoted to Buddhism and in his teenage years the Chinese invaded his country and tried to have him killed. He can not return home, if he does he will be arrested.

Second you and i are NOT enlightened the same as a Buddha, i have not reached enlightenment yet, and you are not even on the path to enlightenment so no we are not the same as a Buddha saying so is borderline disrespectful. Buddhas have a profound understanding of life and they have mastered desire and can walk the middle path without drifting to extremes. They have escaped the cycle of life and death. So yeah being a buddhit, the Buddhas are important in my life..........same as Jesus and god are important in a Christians life.
Buddha is a example of what i strive to be. Yes his body is in a grave, because Buddhism is not about magical resurrections............death is a part of life, death gives life meaning.

[hasserl]

Corroborative evidence? Don't Christians always get upset when non christians always use that word when asking proof for god lol?

I don't know anyone that gets upset. There is non-Biblical evidence for the existence of Christ. And there is a whole field of study called "Evidential Apologetics, which uses evidences, logic and reason to prove the truth of the Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidential_apologetics

Now, whether these convince you or not is beside the point. I just asked if there was any corroborative evidence for the existence of ANY Buddha.

Prove any Buddha existed..........ok. We knowGautama Buddha lived here, you can even visit the places where his remains rest. The place where he gained enlightenment is a huge temple now still run by the sanga he formed.

Just because these places are said to be what you claim doesn't mean they are. That is not evidence. What is the evidence they are what is claimed?

And its not my branch of Buddhism, but some believe H.H the 14th Dalai lama is a manifestation of Avalokiteśvara. He is living in exile because the Chinese want him dead, but he is still active and lives in Nepal. You can watch videos of him, or even visit his official website run by his monks.

So the man called the Dalai Lama exists, where is the evidence he is anything but an ordinary man? How is he a Buddha?

All these other buddhas, before and after Guatama Buddha, where is the evidence for their existence? If you just accept them on faith, that is fine. I'm just asking a simple question about evidence, is there any? Is there anyone who studies this and can provide this when asked? Any "evidential apologist Buddhists"?

[hasserl]

I am going to hold off being offended at your statements because you probably don't know much about Buddhism..........first, like i said Dalai lama is not my branch of Buddhism. I don't like the class system within it's tradition so i don't practice it. I do know from a young age he has been devoted to Buddhism and in his teenage years the Chinese invaded his country and tried to have him killed. He can not return home, if he does he will be arrested.

Second you and i are NOT enlightened the same as a Buddha, i have not reached enlightenment yet, and you are not even on the path to enlightenment so no we are not the same as a Buddha saying so is borderline disrespectful. Buddhas have a profound understanding of life and they have mastered desire and can walk the middle path without drifting to extremes. They have escaped the cycle of life and death. So yeah being a buddhit, the Buddhas are important in my life..........same as Jesus and god are important in a Christians life.
Buddha is a example of what i strive to be. Yes his body is in a grave, because Buddhism is not about magical resurrections............death is a part of life, death gives life meaning.

Again, evidence of enlightenment? How do you know the Buddha was "enlightened"? How do you know the Dali Lama is enlightened? What is the evidence?

It is fine to just accept certain things without evidence, if that is what you choose. This thread wasn't even about Buddhism, you injected it into the thread in an attempt to discredit Christianity, that's why I'm asking. If you were just discussing this in a thread on Buddhism I wouldn't even be participating in the thread.

[Lineman101]

That's also my questions. What does enlightenment look like and how will you know when you got there and are finally enlightened?

[mossy]

That's also my questions. What does enlightenment look like and how will you know when you got there and are finally enlightened?

enlightenment is not a thing you can look at, it more of a awakening in the mind and body. sustained calmness with the extinguishing of suffering and extremes, you live mindfulness.

[colossians323]

so all those that feel this are buddhas?

[Not a Cook]

Can we just take a moment to think about what you just said? Ever play a game of "telephone?" You know, the game where you have 20 people lined up and something is told to the person at the head of the line. The first guy in line whispers the message to the next guy, and then that guy whispers the message to the next guy. By the time the guy at the end hears the message, it may not be the same as when it started. The only difference is this game of "telephone" happened over many hundreds of years between people of many different languages with potential motives to change the message.

Languages are not all equal, they have different words with different meanings -sometimes the syntax is completely different. Throughout the ages and the times, a word may mean something but several hundred years later that same word may mean something else. Just translating one word incorrectly can change the meaning of a sentence entirely. Assuming every single team of translators were all fully-committed to translating the Bible with absolutely no bias, there is still a chance of errors. Assuming people are people -with biases and agendas -we realize the chances of something going wrong, whether accidental or intentional, start to stack up over the many hundreds of years, many languages, and many people involved in the process.

This is highly inaccurate. The NIV and the New Geneva and most others are copied directly from the Greek. Not from other copies of English translations. This argument comes up all the time as though it is fact. It simply is untrue.

RAMCLAP - Thanks for beating me to this! I didn't have time to respond myself.

mr2ndamendment - Respectfully, you told us your background and passion is regarding the study of history. As such, you should be aware that (as RACLAP pointed out already) MOST modern translations of the Bible are NOTHING like the "game of telephone" - they're translated directly from the ancient manuscripts. Your objection to the historicity/reliability of the modern translations doesn't hold water because "it's like a game of telephone" isn't valid because it's based on an incorrect assumption.

[mossy]

Again, evidence of enlightenment? How do you know the Buddha was "enlightened"? How do you know the Dali Lama is enlightened? What is the evidence?

whats the evidence that jesus was the son of god? you know because its in your bible. whats the evidence that enlightenment is real? i know because its in my texts and teachings.

we know the Buddha is enlightened because he was able to spread the dharma throughout this world. he discovered and spread the middle path and opened the door for all people to gain enlightenment and walk the correct path. even though it was attacked the dharma survives and has grown to the fourth largest religion.

if you are in that branch, that believes the Dalai Lama is a manifestation of Avalokiteśvara, you already know the history of Avalokiteśvara, a highly enlightened being. to prove you are the manifestation highly trained monks have to hear about you, if you are a possibility they travel out and test you. if you pass all the tests the Panchen Lama will recognize you as the Dali Lama, you leave home and spend many years in training and meditation. you receive specialized training for many many years, it is not easy and many sacrifices need to be made. currently the real Panchen Lama (and his entire family) that was officially recognized by the Dalai Lama was "dissipated" by the Chinese government. it is believed that once the 14th dalai lama passes on the Chinese will not allow the Tibetan people to name the next Dalai lama.

[mossy]

so all those that feel this are buddhas?

sort of. its real hard to explain, it take alot of time in meditation and planting good seeds to carve out the Buddha nature in all of us. in short yes, we all can awaken the Buddha nature and escape the cycle of life and death. simply saying yeah i am happy and calm is not real enlightenment, i guess it would be like being baptized and having a connection with god, its something you feel throughout your entire body.

if you want the "quickest" way to enlightenment, look at zen. your practice and daily life are not separated, so your entire day is full of mindfulness, very hard to do lol .