Are Old Testament promises valid today?

[Wordupmybrotha]

Understood.

By ?mustard seed? faith, a mountain can be moved. Can faith heal a nation?

I don't think so.
The 2 Chronicles passage is pointing to humility and repentance of the Israelites being the prerequisite to reversing God's judgment at that time. "Healing the land" in v14 refers to the reversal of the drought, locusts and pestilence mentioned in v13.

Secondly, Jesus often uses hyperbole to make a point. And using that mustard seed analogy in the context of healing a nation is too much of a stretch, in my view.

[educator]

religion is just a collection of copes and theories before the age of science. the jews have mainly figured out how to get around the antiquated and fictional tales and teachings by finding loopholes and oftentimes creating arbitrary new rules for the purpose of simultaneously remaining faithful while engaging and doing business in a secular post modern society. look at how many lgbtq flags are flying in front of places of worship these days. modern christian theology is more of the same, allegorical and metaphorical interpretations of the scripture so it does not conflict with newly discovered scientific and evolutionary theories and laws. the fact that people believe they are still upholding the faith, when they have completely subverted the meaning and purpose of the original scriptures through new inventions and interpretations reveals the artifice of religion as a whole.

[educator]

what would a bunch of benighted illiterate bronze age peasants understand about the nature of reality? god, religion, myths, etc all line up exactly with what ancient people would construct about the confusing and unknowable world around them. it's why every culture has their own origin myth, gods, religions, etc. it is a stunning display of hubris and solipsism to think your god and religion out of the thousands that have existed throughout history and still continue to exist today is the one true god and religion.

[damon1272]

Thanks for adding absolutely nothing to the conversation. Though we may disagree within this thread most here believe. Obviously you don’t. I pray that have a chance to change but that is up to you and God. The God of the Jews and Christians is the only true and living God. It is not a religion but rather a relationship between each of use and our creator. I pray for your soul to be saved.

[Garand Hunter]

For educator, MALARKEY !

Psalm 1

[2761377]

The Old Testament is integral.
It should be read in a Christological sense, showing types of the Church today, as well as prophecies.
An example- the Ark of the Covenant is typological of the Virgin Mary.
In this understanding, the Church, which is not invisible, is the New Israel.

[Barang]

I don't think so.
The 2 Chronicles passage is pointing to humility and repentance of the Israelites being the prerequisite to reversing God's judgment at that time. "Healing the land" in v14 refers to the reversal of the drought, locusts and pestilence mentioned in v13.

James 2:14 nkjv
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

you show your faith through your works.

2 Chronicles 7:14 nkjv
if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

[Wordupmybrotha]

James 2:14 nkjv
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

you show your faith through your works.

2 Chronicles 7:14 nkjv
if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

Those two passages that you're citing are nonsequiturs.

[Barang]

Those two passages that you're citing are nonsequiturs.

well, what does 2 Chronicles 7:14 require?
1- humbleness.
2- seeking God.
3- repentance/turning away from wickedness.

those three require actions. and how do you show your faith? through your actions. so faith without works is dead.

[Wordupmybrotha]

well, what does 2 Chronicles 7:14 require?
1- humbleness.
2- seeking God.
3- repentance/turning away from wickedness.

those three require actions. and how do you show your faith? through your actions. so faith without works is dead.

You just answered your question:

1- humbleness.
2- seeking God.
3- repentance/turning away from wickedness.

Faith isn't one of them.

Using "faith" as a catch-all to say, one needs "faith" to do all that seems imprecise and too generic. At worst, it's lazy. Not saying you're lazy, but it's lazy theology to say "have faith", "show faith", etc.

When the passage calls forth "faith", sure, we can talk about that, but 2 Chronicles passage doesn't address it.

[Barang]

You just answered your question:

1- humbleness.
2- seeking God.
3- repentance/turning away from wickedness.

Faith isn't one of them.

Using "faith" as a catch-all to say, one needs "faith" to do all that seems imprecise and too generic. At worst, it's lazy. Not saying you're lazy, but it's lazy theology to say "have faith", "show faith", etc.

When the passage calls forth "faith", sure, we can talk about that, but 2 Chronicles passage doesn't address it.

everything we do in our christian life involves faith. we put our faith in God, in Jesus when we surrendered to them so it goes without saying that faith is required to have a relationship with God. for without faith, it is impossible to please God.
Hebrews 11:6 kjv
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

[Wordupmybrotha]

everything we do in our christian life involves faith. we put our faith in God, in Jesus when we surrendered to them so it goes without saying that faith is required to have a relationship with God. for without faith, it is impossible to please God.
Hebrews 11:6 kjv
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Yes, faith is one of the key ingredients to have a relationship with God.

However, the key ingredient that God wanted in the 2 Chronicles passage was repentance, which is that he wanted his people to admit that they did wicked things, feel remorse and commit to not do those wicked things again.

"Have faith" is not a precise ingredient in that passage.

[Barang]

Yes, faith is one of the key ingredients to have a relationship with God.

However, the key ingredient that God wanted in the 2 Chronicles passage was repentance, which is that he wanted his people to admit that they did wicked things, feel remorse and commit to not do those wicked things again.

"Have faith" is not a precise ingredient in that passage.

2 Chronicles 7:14 nkjv
if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

the verse above has both faith and works included. praying/seeking God face requires faith. turning away from wickedness requires action/work.

the "faith without works is dead" is what Jesus said about "you will know them by their fruits." you show your faith through your works. so a christian life is about faith and works not just faith alone but back up by fruits/works.

[socal m1 shooter]

Source

[Darto]

Never forget the Bible does not say that Jonah told citizens of Nineveh that they should repent, otherwise God would overthrow their city in 40 days.

It says that God said to Jonah "tell to those people what I order you to say (Johan 3:2). And apparently Jonah obeyed. What he told those people was "yay, in 40 days Nineveh shall be overthrown."

There's no ifs or buts about it. No qualifications.

Probably he was a great speaker, because the people became afraid and began to repent. Of course also motivated by the fact that King of Nineveh also now ordered them to do so.

On the 40th day, Jonah is described as upset, and so despondent that he is barely able to get up off his sleeping mat during the day. He is laying on top a deserted hill and watching the city.

Jonah does not like the situation. The promised destruction that he had announced had failed to materialize. Nothing that he predicted had come true. And he was not happy about it.

The text says: " God repented of the evil, that He had said that He would do unto them; and He did it not." God did not do that which He said that He would do.

The moral of this Bible story is plain enough. God will make himself into a liar in order to preserve his mercy. With God, mercy to the repenting person and justice to those who do not repent are his absolute attributes. All the other things said about God are relative. Those things are mostly and almost true about God, but not if they conflict with God's plan to punish all the wicked, and show mercy to all those who are redeemed.

The most common repeated phrase about God all through the Bible is: "His mercy endureth forever". God is love. God is justice. These two are who he is and what he is. Everything else said in the text about God will not hold true if they conflict with those two absolutes.

This is something to keep in mind when people start predicting the destruction of the Earth, the end of time is coming soon. Regardless of how you read the signs, if some people repent, the end of the world by God is not going to happen. No matter if you read in His word that the signs say otherwise.

Genesis 18:16 In the story of Sodom, God tells Abraham he will investigate Sodom's wickedness. Abraham begins to argue with God and God now says something different: if 50 people in the city repent, then he will not send the fire and brimstone. Abraham gets God to change his word again to: if even 45 people will repent. God keeps changing the prophesy and Abraham gets him to relent all the way down to 10 people.

That same lesson is there many times in the Bible. It's not just an opinion about which attributes of God are shown in the text to be absolute, and which are only just usually and approximately true about who and what God is.

His absolutes are two: justice and mercy. Any of his other attributes, when they conflict, will be abandoned by God for the sake of His justice against the wicked and His mercy toward the repenter.