Are Old Testament promises valid today?

[wpage]

The entire bible is Gods word. Old and new testaments should be taken as verbatim. How we understand Gods word and apply it with our limited powers of reason vary by individual.

Since pastoral and translations vary in meaning. There is always some slack from the original scrips. For certain are the 10 Commandments and the Golden Rules which no doubt consolidate and encapsulate the essence of the bible.

If only folk could simply hold on to the 10 Commands or only the Golden Rules. The world would be a greater place.

[socal m1 shooter]

My pastor concurs. That Jeremiah 29:11 is taken completely out of context by today's Christian. It is a popular sign and piece of art on display in many homes. But the verse applies to Israel at that time only, if taken in context of the complete passage.

Not to throw shade on anyone-- I attended church for years before I started to faithfully read my Bible daily-- but many folks (including myself at one time) are content to let the pastor tell them what the Bible says instead of reading it for themselves. This is not a good thing.

As J. Vernon McGee put it, "In my opinion, the greatest sin in the church of Jesus Christ in this generation is ignorance of the Word of God. Many times I have heard a church officer say, "Well I don't know much about the Bible, but..." and then he gives his opinion, which often actually contradicts the Word of God! Why doesn't he know much about the Bible? These things were written aforetime for our learning. God wants you to know His Word."

[Kokopelli]

The entire bible is Gods word. Old and new testaments should be taken as verbatim. How we understand Gods word and apply it with our limited powers of reason vary by individual.

Since pastoral and translations vary in meaning. There is always some slack from the original scrips. For certain are the 10 Commandments and the Golden Rules which no doubt consolidate and encapsulate the essence of the bible.

If only folk could simply hold on to the 10 Commands or only the Golden Rules. The world would be a greater place.

Good point about the 10 commandments. Though we are not under law but under grace, we revere, honor and obey the 10 commandments. They are God's literal and eternal words.To take scripture and say, "Well, that passage is written for a specifis group and time." Those people could say it of the 10 commandments

The Ten Commandments

Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words:

2 ?I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3 ?You shall have no other gods before me....

They could say we were not brought out of Egypt and out from the land slavery so it does not apply to us.

I'm sorry but my faith is like that of a little child. God's words are beautiful and to be honored. They are eternal. They are life. They are hope. They are good. That is what Holy Spirit says to my heart, in my personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

[IronsightsRifleman]

I am disturbed by the vagueness of your question. The bible is to be understood as a whole, in the context in which it was written. Often God's words apply in broader contexts than they were originally interpreted, because His words reveal His nature. But pulling random verses out of their context and trying to reinterpret them in isolation is not an act worthy of the faithful.
Jesus often quoted scripture, but always with an understanding of context; he never twisted words. Let that be your aim.

[socal m1 shooter]

Since posters keep mentioning the Ten Commandments, I will share a study that really helped me to understand how disciples of Jesus Christ should respond to the ten commandments. It is available as an MP3 as well if people prefer to listen; look for "The Law of Moses and the Law of Messiah (006)" here.

In a nutshell, the Law of Moses (all 613 commands, including the 10 commandments) is a unit. James 2:10 tells us "For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it." Here is an excerpt from this study; emphasis mine.

[...]

It must be understood that the Mosaic Law is viewed by the Scriptures
as a unit. The word Torah, meaning ?law,? when applied to the Law of
Moses is always singular, although it contains 613 commandments.
The same is true of the Greek word nomos in the New Testament. The
division of the Law of Moses into ceremonial, legal and moral parts
is convenient for the study of different types of commandments
contained within it, but it is never divided in this way by the Scriptures
themselves. Neither is there any scriptural basis for separating the Ten
Commandments from the whole 613 and making only those
perpetual. All 613 commandments are a single unit comprising the
Law of Moses.

It is the principle of the unity of the Law of Moses that lies behind
the statement found in James 2:10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law,
and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all.
The point is clear: a person needs only to break one of the 613
commandments to be guilty of breaking all of the Law of Moses. This
can only be true if the Mosaic Law is a unit. If it is not, the guilt lies
only in the particular commandment violated and not in the whole
Law. In other words, if one breaks a legal commandment, he is guilty
of breaking the ceremonial and moral ones as well. The same is true
of breaking a moral or ceremonial commandment. To bring the point
closer to home, if a person eats ham, according to the Law of Moses
he is guilty of breaking the Ten Commandments, although none of
them says anything about eating ham. The Law is a unit, and to break
one of the 613 commandments is to break them all.

In order to have a clear understanding of the Law of Moses and its
relationship to the believer, Jew or Gentile, it is necessary to view it as
the Scriptures view it: as a unit that cannot be divided into parts that
have been done away with and parts that have not. Nor can certain
commandments be separated in such a way as to give them a different
status from the other commandments.

[...]

The Law of Moses has been disannulled, and we are now under a new
law. This new law is called: the law of Christ in Galatians 6:2 and the law
of the Spirit of life in Romans 8:2. This is a brand new law, totally
separate from the Law of Moses. The Law of the Messiah contains all
the commandments applicable to a New Testament believer.

The reason why there is so much confusion over the relationship of
the Law of Moses and the Law of the Messiah is that many
commandments are similar to those found in the Mosaic Law, and
many believers have concluded that certain sections of the Law have
therefore been retained. But it has already been shown that this
cannot be the case, and the explanation for the sameness of the
commandments is to be found elsewhere.

This explanation can best be understood if it is realized that there are
a number of codes in the Bible; such as the Edenic, Adamic, Noahic,
Mosaic and Christian. A new code will always contain some of the
same commandments of the previous code, but this does not mean
that the previous code is still in effect. While certain of the
commandments of the Adamic Code were also found in the Edenic
Code, it did not mean that it was still partially in force. The Edenic
Code ceased to function with the fall of man. The same is true when
we compare the Law of the Messiah with the Law of Moses. There
are many similar commandments. For example, nine of the Ten
Commandments are to be found in the Law of the Messiah, but this
does not mean that the Law of Moses is still in force.

Let me illustrate this by using an example which many of us have
experienced. I received my first driver?s license in the State of
California, and, as long as I drove in California, I was subject to the
traffic laws of that state. But after a couple of years, I moved to New
York. Once I left California, I ceased to be under California traffic
law. The traffic laws of that state were rendered inoperative in my
case. Now my driving was subject to a new law, the traffic laws of the
State of New York. There were many laws which were different. In
California I was permitted to make a right turn at a red light after
stopping and yielding the right-of-way, but in New York no turn was
permitted at a red light. There were many similar laws between the
two states; such as, the law demanding that I stop at a red light. When
I stopped at a red light, I did not do so in obedience to the State of
California as I once had, but in obedience to the State of New York.
I proceeded at a green light, not because of California law, but
because of New York law. If I went through a red light without
stopping, I was not guilty of breaking California law, but New York
law. Many laws were similar, but they were under two distinctly
different systems.

The Law of Moses has been nullified and we are now under the Law
of the Messiah. There are many different commandments. Under the
Law of Moses we would not be permitted to eat pork, but under the
Law of the Messiah we may. There are many similar commandments,
but they are nonetheless in two separate systems. So if we do not kill
or steal, this is not because of the Law of Moses but because of the
Law of the Messiah. On the other hand, if I do steal, I am not guilty
of breaking the Law of Moses but of breaking the Law of the
Messiah.

This understanding can solve many problems among fundamental
believers; such as, the issues of women wearing pants, the Sabbath
and tithing. If the commandments concerning these things are only
based on the Law of Moses and not on the Law of the Messiah, then
they have no validity for the New Testament believer.

The believer is free from the Law of Moses, but he is also free to keep
parts of it. Thus, if a Jewish believer feels the need to refrain from
eating pork, he is free to do so. The same is true for all the other
commandments.

However, there are two dangers that must be avoided by the Messianic
believer who volunteers to keep the commandments of the Law of
Moses. One danger is the idea that by doing so he is contributing to
his own justification and sanctification. This is false and should be
avoided. The second danger is in one?s expecting others to keep the
same commandments which he had decided to keep. This is equally
wrong and borders on legalism. The one who exercises his freedom to
keep the Law must recognize and respect another?s freedom not to
keep it.

[Garand Hunter]

Jeremiah's verse, ch 29, vs 11 STANDS in force still. If you have the balls to exercise faith in these words, yes it is still in force.

Psalm 1

[Barang]

... For certain are the 10 Commandments and the Golden Rules which no doubt consolidate and encapsulate the essence of the bible.

If only folk could simply hold on to the 10 Commands or only the Golden Rules. The world would be a greater place.

2 John 6 nkjv
This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

Revelation 22:14 nkjv
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Matthew 22:36-40 nkjv
36 ?Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said to him, ??You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.? 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ?You shall love your neighbor as yourself.? 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.?

1 Timothy 1:8-10 nkjv
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is [a]contrary to sound doctrine,



Matthew 7:19-20 nkjv
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

John 15:5-6 nkjv
5 ?I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

[Dirtlaw]

God is constant. God never changes. God is reliable. God's promises will never fail.

[Wordupmybrotha]

I think God's character and general principles are revealed in those verses, which we can rely on today, but the promise of specific outcomes were for those specific people in the past.

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin:

Yes, God loves and will forgive a contrite and repentant heart. This is a promise we can rely on today.

and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
No, not an applicable promise for today


"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord:

True. God is omniscient. And what's also comforting is, he has a plan for us.

"plans to prosper you and not to harm you"

While God doesn't promise wealth for all Christians (and it's proven by all the poor Christians around the world), he wants what's best for his people. He is for us, not against us.

" plans to give you hope and a future." - Jeremiah 29:11

Yes, God is the hope of mankind.

It's too bad that these verses were so abused because I like these verses. But I don't use them because it causes a controversy.

[ZapThyCat]

I think if you claim it and step out on faith, God will respect that and regardless of whether or not it was meant for you now, it will be your promise.

[Kokopelli]

I think God's character and general principles are revealed in those verses, which we can rely on today, but the promise of specific outcomes were for those specific people in the past.

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin:

Yes, God loves and will forgive a contrite and repentant heart. This is a promise we can rely on today.

and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
No, not an applicable promise for today


"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord:

True. God is omniscient. And what's also comforting is, he has a plan for us.

"plans to prosper you and not to harm you"

While God doesn't promise wealth for all Christians (and it's proven by all the poor Christians around the world), he wants what's best for his people. He is for us, not against us.

" plans to give you hope and a future." - Jeremiah 29:11

Yes, God is the hope of mankind.

It's too bad that these verses were so abused because I like these verses. But I don't use them because it causes a controversy.

Understood.

By ?mustard seed? faith, a mountain can be moved. Can faith heal a nation?

[billvau]

V.14 with it's immediate context: 2 Ch7:13 “If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people, 14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 15 “Now My eyes will be open and My ears attentive to the prayer offered in this place.



2 Chronicles 7:14 is frequently taken out of context, because v.13 and v.15 are ignored. To use v.14 by itself is proof-texting. The phrase “My people” is often understood to mean either “Christians” or a designated nation, though the context clearly shows that it relates to Israel. “heal their land” is wrongly used as a prayer formula in an effort to initiate a revival or spiritual awakening. However, even a simple, clear, analysis of verse 13 reveals that the “healing” pertained to providing rain and removing locusts and pestilence, again in Israel. America is not a covenant nation, like Israel.

1. Every promise/prophecy in the OT has to be taken in context and with a proper biblical interpretation.
2. Even then, "promises" are usually in general and cannot be "claimed" and applied as a certainty.

Applying the OT to today is a difficult task. In my ministry, I see it often done incorrectly with respect to families and government.

Blessings,
Bill

[Kokopelli]

V.14 with it's immediate context: 2 Ch7:13 ?If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people, 14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 15 ?Now My eyes will be open and My ears attentive to the prayer offered in this place.



2 Chronicles 7:14 is frequently taken out of context, because v.13 and v.15 are ignored. To use v.14 by itself is proof-texting. The phrase ?My people? is often understood to mean either ?Christians? or a designated nation, though the context clearly shows that it relates to Israel. ?heal their land? is wrongly used as a prayer formula in an effort to initiate a revival or spiritual awakening. However, even a simple, clear, analysis of verse 13 reveals that the ?healing? pertained to providing rain and removing locusts and pestilence, again in Israel. America is not a covenant nation, like Israel.

1. Every promise/prophecy in the OT has to be taken in context and with a proper biblical interpretation.
2. Even then, "promises" are usually in general and cannot be "claimed" and applied as a certainty.

Applying the OT to today is a difficult task. In my ministry, I see it often done incorrectly with respect to families and government.

Blessings,
Bill

Thank you. Understood.

Meditating on God's words and attitude in 2 Chronicles 7:14, shouldn't it's promises inspire us today? Yes, that was originally said to Israel. The Old Testament is still a teacher. Reading that passage, I wonder;

Are Christians God's people?
Are we not called by Christ's name?
Are we to humble ourselves?
Are we to pray?
Are we to seek God's face?
Are we to turn from our wickedness?
Does God in heaven hear our prayers?
Does God forgive sin?
Is God able to heal our nation?

GTG

[billvau]

Thank you. Understood.

Meditating on God's words and attitude in 2 Chronicles 7:14, shouldn't it's promises inspire us today? Yes, that was originally said to Israel. The Old Testament is still a teacher. Reading that passage, I wonder;

Are Christians God's people?
Are we not called by Christ's name?
Are we to humble ourselves?
Are we to pray?
Are we to seek God's face?
Are we to turn from our wickedness?
Does God in heaven hear our prayers?
Does God forgive sin?
Is God able to heal our nation?

GTG

Honestly, I'm much more inspired by other verses. The answer to all of your questions is "yes," but not based on those verses. And, that's very important - find answers to your questions in verses, in their context, that are applicable to us today.

Make a commitment to know every verse in it's context and only answer questions when the context supports a properly interpreted verse. Your life will change and you'll see that God wants us focusing our lives on Jesus Christ - fellowship with Him (1 Cor. 1:9). God has call you into fellowship with Him (intimate relationship / communion with Christ). He has set you aside for His purposes, to lead a holy life (1 Cor. 1:2). "sanctified" means set aside for God's purposes. "Saints by calling" literally means "called to be holy." I focus on this and not on our land and any comfort here.

Our land will only be healed as God saves people - one-at-a-time.

I'm rambling. Sorry. Avoid the news, read the Bible, grow more holy, and share the gospel at every opportunity you can create!

Blessings.

[skilletboy]

My pastor concurs. That Jeremiah 29:11 is taken completely out of context by today's Christian. It is a popular sign and piece of art on display in many homes. But the verse applies to Israel at that time only, if taken in context of the complete passage.

I agree with this, but I also think that Jeremiah 29 shows the HEART and CHARACTER of God. While it has a context, it shows us that God doesn't give up on us, wants the best for us, and does have a plan for us. But of course it was written and spoken prophetically for a specific time.