UMC split

[Barang]

to all pastors on calguns, here are some question:
1- i wonder how many here uses 10 commandments to identify sins?
2- how many here identify sins by name when preaching (i guess interchangeable/similar to question #1)?

[billvau]

to all pastors on calguns, here are some question:
1- i wonder how many here uses 10 commandments to identify sins?
2- how many here identify sins by name when preaching (i guess interchangeable/similar to question #1)?

1. Read this carefully . I don't use the 10 commandments as the 10 commandments presented in Exodus 20. Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law and so we're no longer under them *as presented in Exodus 20.* Why is that important? Well.... half of them have the death penalty under the Mosaic Law!

But, with that said, nine are repeated in the New Testament but there is no longer a death penalty! The only one NOT in the NT is keeping the Sabbath. The Sabbath is Saturday (no, not redefined over to Sunday either). NT worship is "In spirit and in Truth" (John 4:24) - IOW internal worship, not outward observance of laws. We are free to worship all the time and the early church chose to begin Sunday worship coinciding with Christ's resurrection on a Sunday morning.

2. Yes, definitely. I'm always asking people what their top three sins are so that I can preach on them! Funny, no one wants to tell me. The ones that get some people to complain? Anxiety & Worry (Matt 6) (i.e "stress is a sin), fear of men (1 Peter 3:14), gluttony, extreme over-weight (lack of self-control), and worldliness (1 John 2:15-17).

Since a pastor is called to "preach the word" "in season and out", every sin the Bible is going to be called out by name sooner-or-later, especially when you preach book-by-book, verse-by-verse as I do!

Blessings,

[Garand Hunter]

Good reply Bill!

Psalm !

[Sailormilan2]

Good reply Bill. Let me refer to your last statement.

“Since a pastor is called to "preach the word" "in season and out", every sin the Bible is going to be called out by name sooner-or-later”.

My comment to that, and your statements just before it, is this. You are correct in that we are no longer under the Law, though the “10 Commandments” are technically the “covenant”, the Law defines what a sin is. Sin is a violation of the Law, and Paul says that without the Law there is no sin.
Without the Law as a standard to define what a sin is, there may be chaos. Everyone, or one particular person, giving their opinion as to what is a sin. I’ve come out of a group like that.
So, while I agree that we are no longer under the Law, the Law still serves a purpose to show if a particular thing is a sin.
As is said, All scripture is given for inspiration, reproof, doctrine……….

[billvau]

More later, but first, thanks for your thoughtful and correct response. BUT, "Law" in the NT has multiple meanings. Most people just think every reference to "Law" means the Mosaic Law, of which the 10 Commandments are a summary of.

But, (and this is where it may be a while before I get back in depth), some uses are God's moral law, which is above all specific "sets" of Law. Just think timeline for "specific sets" of laws. What was "law" before the Mosaic Law. Cain sinned against God with his offering. But there was no Mosaic Law yet. Read Romans 5:12-14 to get thoroughly confused. And, what is the "law" after Christ's resurrection? It's not the Mosaic law. We call it the "Law of Christ" (1 Cor. 9:21; Gal. 6:2). Above all of those is God's moral law, i.e. what is right and wrong "at His level."

Gotta go. Great response. Thanks. Do a search on "law" in the NT and try to see, in context, what the Holy Spirit is revealing - what "law" is He talking about???

Blessings!

[Barang]

1. Read this carefully

Since a pastor is called to "preach the word" "in season and out", every sin the Bible is going to be called out by name sooner-or-later, especially when you preach book-by-book, verse-by-verse as I do!

Blessings,

thank you bill. the reason i asked is because porn, abortion, gay marriage, transgenderism, fornication, adultery and foul language are the norm and promoted by dems, hollywood, social media, woke corporate america and liberal entertainments (all forms). so i am curious how many pastors here confront these sins and condemn them at the pulpit. reminding congregants to stay away from them, that those will never be approved by God because He is holy, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

the 10 commandments are useful in identifying sins because they serve as a mirror that clearly identify sins. I still believe that we are under the Law but the penalty of instant death is already paid by Jesus. when we sin, we ask for forgiveness and He's is faithful to forgive (by His grace).

we don't keep the Law to be saved but we keep the Law because we love Him. We show our faith through good works (you shall know them by their fruits) because we now have a new personality (born again). it's good to keep the Law to remind us of the boundaries and keep us in line with God's word.

[spectralhunter]

thank you bill. the reason i asked is because porn, abortion, gay marriage, transgenderism, fornication, adultery and foul language are the norm and promoted by dems, hollywood, social media, woke corporate america and liberal entertainments (all forms). so i am curious how many pastors here confront these sins and condemn them at the pulpit. reminding congregants to stay away from them, that those will never be approved by God because He is holy, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

the 10 commandments are useful in identifying sins because they serve as a mirror that clearly identify sins. I still believe that we are under the Law but the penalty of instant death is already paid by Jesus. when we sin, we ask for forgiveness and He's is faithful to forgive (by His grace).

we don't keep the Law to be saved but we keep the Law because we love Him. We show our faith through good works (you shall know them by their fruits) because we now have a new personality (born again). it's good to keep the Law to remind us of the boundaries and keep us in line with God's word.

Unfortunately a lot of church pastors do not condemn sins today. Especially in many of the megachurches, they tow a line regarding sin because they do not want to offend anyone and lose members.

But doing so risks the lives of every church member, including the pastor. It's no longer repent, ask for forgiveness and God is faithful and will save you. It's becoming more like, Jesus loves you no matter what you do. The Gospel has been diluted into nothing sadly in many cases.

[Wordupmybrotha]

Good reply Bill. Let me refer to your last statement.

“Since a pastor is called to "preach the word" "in season and out", every sin the Bible is going to be called out by name sooner-or-later”.

My comment to that, and your statements just before it, is this. You are correct in that we are no longer under the Law, though the “10 Commandments” are technically the “covenant”, the Law defines what a sin is. Sin is a violation of the Law, and Paul says that without the Law there is no sin.
Without the Law as a standard to define what a sin is, there may be chaos. Everyone, or one particular person, giving their opinion as to what is a sin. I’ve come out of a group like that.
So, while I agree that we are no longer under the Law, the Law still serves a purpose to show if a particular thing is a sin.
As is said, All scripture is given for inspiration, reproof, doctrine……….

thank you bill. the reason i asked is because porn, abortion, gay marriage, transgenderism, fornication, adultery and foul language are the norm and promoted by dems, hollywood, social media, woke corporate america and liberal entertainments (all forms). so i am curious how many pastors here confront these sins and condemn them at the pulpit. reminding congregants to stay away from them, that those will never be approved by God because He is holy, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

the 10 commandments are useful in identifying sins because they serve as a mirror that clearly identify sins. I still believe that we are under the Law but the penalty of instant death is already paid by Jesus. when we sin, we ask for forgiveness and He's is faithful to forgive (by His grace).

we don't keep the Law to be saved but we keep the Law because we love Him. We show our faith through good works (you shall know them by their fruits) because we now have a new personality (born again). it's good to keep the Law to remind us of the boundaries and keep us in line with God's word.

I agree with the posts above. That's my understanding also.

Bill might be talking about how using the term "laws" get murky, because there are so many kinds, including dietary laws and other restrictions used to set apart Jewish people, but to me, the 10 commandments summarizes the perpetual moral obligations between man and God (1-4) and between man and man (5-10) that still define sin. God is still holy and what he deemed unholy before Christ's death is still considered unholy now and tomorrow.

[billvau]

I agree with the posts above. That's my understanding also.

Bill might be talking about how using the term "laws" get murky, because there are so many kinds, including dietary laws and other restrictions used to set apart Jewish people, but to me, the 10 commandments summarizes the perpetual moral obligations between man and God (1-4) and between man and man (5-10) that still define sin. God is still holy and what he deemed unholy before Christ's death is still considered unholy now and tomorrow.

Go a level higher as I explained. It's not "types" of laws but rather laws handed down by God for times before, during, and after the Mosaic Law. ABOVE all of those is God's moral standard (the highest level "law").

Blessings!

[Handshaker]

When the scriptures say we are not under the law doesn't mean we have a pass to commit any of those commandments whenever we want. What is does mean is we are not under the penalty of death, spiritual and physical for breaking them. If we have broken one of the commandments, we have broken them all. That obedience doesn't save you, Its Christ death on the cross that paid the penalty for breaking them. Which every one of us does daily.

[Sailormilan2]