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Is there Bacon in heaven?

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  • #31
    Sailormilan2
    Veteran Member
    • Nov 2006
    • 3452

    The Torah(Law) was given to the Isrealites(later "Jews") only at Mt Sinai. This is stated in Deu 5:3:
    Deu 5:3
    The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

    Further backed up by comments from the Mishnah Torah:

    “Moses our Teacher did not bequeath the Torah and the Commandments to anyone but to Israel, as it says, ‘the Heritage of the Congregation of Jacob’ (Deut. 33:4), and to anyone from the other nations who wishes to convert, as it says, ‘as you, as a convert’ (Numbers 15:15). However, no one who does not want to convert is forced to accept the Torah and the Commandments.” Mishnah Torah 8.12

    A "non Jew", or Gentile, was allowed to live in Hebrew controled territories as long as he/she followed the 7 Laws of Noah. Any Gentile caught attempting to follow the Law could be killed.

    “A non-Jew who busied himself with Torah is liable with his life. He must involve himself in their Seven Commandments only. Similarly, a non-Jew who ‘rested’ as one would on [Sabbath], even on a weekday, is liable with the death penalty. There is no reason to mention (that he is culpable) if he invented his own holiday.

    “The principle here is that we do not permit them to make a new religion and create new commandments for themselves based on their own reasoning. They may only become Righteous Converts and accept upon themselves all the Commandments, or they must observe their own (Seven) Laws only, and not add or detract from them. If a non-Jew busied himself with Torah or made [Sabbath] or made up something new, we give him lashes and punish him and tell him that he is liable with the death penalty for doing this. But he is not executed.” Mishneh Torah 10.11–12

    That was the whole stink that Acts 15 is about. The Jewish Christian Church leaders wanted converted Gentiles to get circumcised, and then fall under all the Laws of the Torah and Mishnah. Paul knew that would not go over well with Gentiles, especially the Greeks.
    So, when he says that the Gentiles converts will only be required to do 4 things, those 4 things appear to be from the 7 laws of Noah.

    Act 15:20
    But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

    Martin Luther lists the 7 Laws as:

    In later times the Jews have been wont to speak of what they called the seven Noachic commandments, which, according to them, were binding upon all Gentile proselytes. These were a prohibition (1) of idolatry, (2) of blasphemy, (3) of murder, (4) of incest, (5) of robbery and theft, (6) of eating blood and strangled animals, and (7) an injunction of obedience to magistrates.” Alfred Edersheim, “After the Flood” in “The Bible History: Old Testament”, Volume 1, page 53.
    (some versions add adultery to the "incest", some versions list only adultery and not incest)

    The idea of using Matt 15 and Acts 11 as "proofs" that God now allows is it, it totally out of the context of what those chapters are talking about. For Christians and Gentiles, eating of pork products is allowed. There is no prohibition on it.
    Last edited by Sailormilan2; 08-30-2021, 7:35 AM.

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    • #32
      Garand Hunter
      Veteran Member
      • Feb 2016
      • 2771

      Excellent things set forth here and there, but will there be bacon IN HEAVEN was the question, not if its right or allowable here on earth. On earth its already settled.

      Psalm 1
      Last edited by Garand Hunter; 08-30-2021, 7:53 AM. Reason: spelling

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      • #33
        CVShooter
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2017
        • 1234

        Originally posted by IronsightsRifleman
        What description of heaven in the Bible sounds like hell? Or are you reading Hollywood fiction?
        Maybe some fictional hymns -- streets of gold, crystal sea. F*&+ pavement! I hate pavement. Trees, vines, grasses and shrubs taking over pavement -- that's what I call beauty.

        Spending my day in a big crowd fawning over some megalomaniacal, jealous and insecure being? No thanks.

        No sex? Door please! Whoever designed this place doesn't understand humanity.

        Absence of struggle? Where's the fun? Where's the challenge?

        No disease or death? Sounds like an overpopulation problem. And how can anybody appreciate life in the absence of death?

        Call me worldly. I am of this world and always will be. All the ideas of heaven I've heard lack imagination. Simple, dumbed-down, sickening bliss. No thanks.

        Comment

        • #34
          Sailormilan2
          Veteran Member
          • Nov 2006
          • 3452

          Originally posted by Garand Hunter
          Excellent things set forth here and there, but will there be bacon IN HEAVEN was the question, not if its right or allowable here on earth. On earth its already settled.

          Psalm 1
          Well people commonly say that there won't be sex in heaven, but Is 6:2 seems to imply that Angels may have genitalia. Why have genitalia if it's not going to be used?

          "Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly."

          The Strongs lists one of the meanings of the word "feet" as:
          "by euphemistically the pudenda"

          Comment

          • #35
            ZapThyCat
            Veteran Member
            • Apr 2006
            • 2610

            Originally posted by SelfGovernor
            The Word of God specifically says swine is not food while other animals are sanctified (Set Apart) for food.
            You may do well to heed 2nd Peter 3:16
            I think you're a little confused. Scripture is pretty clear... I'll feed you some more:
            1 Corinthians 10:23
            All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
            24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
            25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
            26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
            27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
            28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
            29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
            30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
            31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

            What is this liberty? To eat what we will? Yes. And more. "Sin" is simply, separation from God. So does it separate you from God to eat pork rinds? Only if that's something put on your heart. Otherwise, whatever animal you eat, it's not wrong, so long as you don't feel it's wrong. Conscience.
            ~Jarrod~

            Comment

            • #36
              ZapThyCat
              Veteran Member
              • Apr 2006
              • 2610

              Originally posted by CVShooter
              Call me worldly. I am of this world and always will be. All the ideas of heaven I've heard lack imagination. Simple, dumbed-down, sickening bliss. No thanks.
              Why are you even in this subforum then? Do we go into the hedonism subforum and preach at them? No.
              ~Jarrod~

              Comment

              • #37
                tsmithson
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2016
                • 1580

                Trailerpark Trash,

                I clearly stated that most of what I am said was opinion but based on experiences and things I’ve read or seen.

                There were people in the scriptures who saw heaven.
                There are thousands if not millions of people on the earth now who have had experiences with God and Heaven.
                Go to UTube and watch 50 or more people testify of experiences they had when they died and came back to life after some trauma or accident. Many say they went to a heavenly place and saw family members who had passed away. Many say they saw animals or pets that they used to have that passed away. I’m talking about a place where people go after death before they are resurrected.

                In the mouth of two to three witnesses shall the truth be established. Let every man judge for themselves.

                There are people alive who have seen the house where they are going to live after they die. Fields of wheat as far as the eye can see on the property with stalls and animals in them. PM if you want to know how I know.

                Members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints can be married for eternity and can continue to have an endless posterity.
                Why do so many put limits on our Father in Heaven or the potential for us to become like our Father. We are literally the spirit children of the God of the universe. We are traveling through the same process as Jesus Christ- He existed before he was born. He was born and received a body. He died and was resurrected and returned to his Father. The same path as some of us.

                I think I can be happy without bacon.
                Give me fresh real sourdough bread and I’m tasting heaven on earth.
                Last edited by tsmithson; 08-31-2021, 11:49 AM.

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                • #38
                  CVShooter
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2017
                  • 1234

                  Originally posted by ZapThyCat
                  Why are you even in this subforum then? Do we go into the hedonism subforum and preach at them? No.
                  There's a hedonism subforum? Link please!

                  Do you really think that Judeo-Christian religions have a monopoly on faith and spirituality?

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    CVShooter
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2017
                    • 1234

                    Originally posted by Sailormilan2
                    Well people commonly say that there won't be sex in heaven, but Is 6:2 seems to imply that Angels may have genitalia. Why have genitalia if it's not going to be used?

                    "Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly."

                    The Strongs lists one of the meanings of the word "feet" as:
                    "by euphemistically the pudenda"
                    Ah, very good there! Yes, and it was angels who had sex with human women to create the Nephilim. Good catch. And, yes, feet -- a well-known euphemism. Never thought to apply it there but it works.

                    But wait! Gabriel... Michael... they're all dudes?! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Garand Hunter
                      Veteran Member
                      • Feb 2016
                      • 2771

                      You won't read in the scriptures about female angels getting porked by men and producing giants on the earth, or putting it another way, races of midgets etc. Just passing along a tidbit of sarcasm here.

                      Psalm 1

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                      • #41
                        Clippers015
                        CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                        CGN Contributor
                        • May 2015
                        • 563

                        Mark 7:15-19
                        “There is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man. [” If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”] When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable. And He said to them, “Are you so lacking in understanding also? Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” NASB

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                        • #42
                          SelfGovernor
                          Member
                          • Jul 2012
                          • 341

                          Originally posted by ZapThyCat
                          I think you're a little confused. Scripture is pretty clear... I'll feed you some more:
                          1 Corinthians 10:23
                          All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
                          24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
                          25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
                          26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
                          27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
                          28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
                          29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
                          30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
                          31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

                          What is this liberty? To eat what we will? Yes. And more. "Sin" is simply, separation from God. So does it separate you from God to eat pork rinds? Only if that's something put on your heart. Otherwise, whatever animal you eat, it's not wrong, so long as you don't feel it's wrong. Conscience.

                          Sorry if this tweaks those of you with short attentions spans, but here is what Paul actually wrote:

                          1 Corinthians 10:1-33 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. 14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak as to wise men; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17 For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread. 18 Observe Israel after the flesh: Are not those who eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What am I saying then? That an idol is anything, or what is offered to idols is anything? 20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord's table and of the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He? 23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well-being. 25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience' sake; 26 for "the earth is the LORD's, and all its fullness." 27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols," do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "the earth is the LORD's, and all its fullness." 29 "Conscience," I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience? 30 But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks? 31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32 Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, 33 just as I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
                          This is Pauls long discourse regarding the eating of meet that may have been sacrificed to idols. Read the whole context, clearly Paul does Not support lawlessness as you claim but rather warns them not to partake of sinful activities: "Now these things became our examples..."

                          And no, there will not be Bacon in heaven
                          ... that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

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                          • #43
                            ZapThyCat
                            Veteran Member
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 2610

                            Originally posted by SelfGovernor
                            clearly Paul does Not support lawlessness as you claim
                            Eating pork is "lawlessness"? You're loopy if you think that.

                            Originally posted by SelfGovernor
                            And no, there will not be Bacon in heaven
                            We can agree on that. There won't be any food, because there won't be physical bodies that need to be sustained.
                            ~Jarrod~

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                            • #44
                              IronsightsRifleman
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2020
                              • 875

                              Originally posted by CVShooter
                              Maybe some fictional hymns -- streets of gold, crystal sea. F*&+ pavement! I hate pavement. Trees, vines, grasses and shrubs taking over pavement -- that's what I call beauty.

                              Spending my day in a big crowd fawning over some megalomaniacal, jealous and insecure being? No thanks.

                              No sex? Door please! Whoever designed this place doesn't understand humanity.

                              Absence of struggle? Where's the fun? Where's the challenge?

                              No disease or death? Sounds like an overpopulation problem. And how can anybody appreciate life in the absence of death?

                              Call me worldly. I am of this world and always will be. All the ideas of heaven I've heard lack imagination. Simple, dumbed-down, sickening bliss. No thanks.
                              Show me where the Bible says you'll be spending your days in a crowd fawning over a diety. Where does it say there will be an absence of struggle or fun or challenge? Where does it say there will be no bacon... or no sex? The Bible does tell us there will be no marriage. And no disease or death.
                              You say, "whoever designed this place [heaven] doesn't understand humanity." The place you speak of is the sorry place of Hollywood fiction, not the heaven of the Bible-- the place of a new heaven and a new Earth. And if your ideas of heaven lack imagination, you have no one to blame but yourself.
                              Go find out what this means: Jesus said, "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."
                              Last edited by IronsightsRifleman; 09-01-2021, 10:43 PM.

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                              • #45
                                CVShooter
                                Senior Member
                                • Jul 2017
                                • 1234

                                Originally posted by IronsightsRifleman
                                The Bible does tell us there will be no marriage."
                                Total free love then? Well, maybe there's something to look forward to after all.

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