Capital punishment

[flyer898]

Capital punishment, defined as death imposed as a criminal penalty, is a fairly recent and merciful innovation. Prior to the late 18th century (invention of the guillotine) death was a by product of the punishment. For an excellent, if somewhat gruesome, discussion see Dan Carlin’s “Hardcore History” podcast on the subject.
It is available here: https://www.dancarlin.com/product/ha...ainfotainment/

[The War Wagon]

The ULTIMATE capital PUNISHER: Matthew 10: 28!

[locomike]

The right way to proceed is to see what the scriptures say, not what you want them to say, but what they actually say. Keep in mind they were written for you but not TO you. So, to really seek their meaning, you must go to the original language and research the world view of the writer and original readers of any given book. Sure its a bit of work but it is doable.
You will find, for example, that the commandment actually says "though shall not murder", translations that say "kill" instead are just inaccurate. There is a huge difference there and you will find that all the scriptures are consistent, God does not forbid capital punishment or killing in war or self defense etc. That may be at odds with your world view but it is nevertheless what the scriptures state.

[Garand Hunter]

For the " Thou shalt not kill " crowd: did you ever read the translation of the word " kill " in a Hebrew dictionary or in Strongs concordance ? Try it and see what is written there. Doctors kill people every day thru malpractice and drunks kill people many times a year in traffic accidents, so how is it sorted out? The translation I referenced " To DASH in pieces " which to me implies a action of violence. In the gosples Jesus was reputed to say " ye have heard of old time thou shalt kill " and in the aforementioned Strongs concordance it reads " do no murder ." Plenty of references in the OT dealing with what to do with murderers. Just sayin, yes locomike you got it right.

Psalm1

[Den60]

Look up David Westerfield and David Allen Lucas. The former raped and murdered a 7 year old girl. The latter killed the 3 year old daughter of a guy I used to play music with though the DA couldn't get that one to stick. He was just convicted for killing two women and a 3 year old boy.

[Wordupmybrotha]

Society has an obligation to protect the members of that society. Christianity expects that we love our neighbors and forgive those who wrong us. There is not question what the right answer is when it comes to a rabid dog. You kill it. This is done to protect society. It not done out of hate or fear, in fact, it is often a mercy to the animal. When it comes to animals wearing the skin of a man, the same thing applies. Society must protect society. Imprisonment is a punishment imposed with the hope that the imprisoned will pay his debt and become an upstanding member of society again. Never mind that it very rarely works out that way. We continue to hope. But those man-shaped animal will never become anything other than a danger and must be put down. Just like with the rabid dog, we must protect society and put the animal down. It must not be done out of hate or fear, but with forgiveness. And all possible haste. And who but the members of society, through the due process of the courts, should make the decision? BTW, "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" is NOT a Christian value. That is purely Old Testament and was superseded by the teachings of Christ. You know, "turn the other cheek?"

Rusty Bolts

Jesus is the God of the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. Being Christian does not mean that we disregard the OT. The bible is wholly consistent as God does not contradict himself. "Turn the other cheek" did not abolish capital punishment. It refers to personal retaliation. For example, if someone slaps me, instead of retaliating by slapping him back, I practice self restraint.

However, I have the right to use the justice system to file assault charge against him, as God instituted government to apply justice.

[eta34]

I'm definitely against it, although not necessarily for religious reasons. Our criminal justice system has convicted many innocent people. Our juries routinely get it wrong. Giving them the responsibility to take one's life is a bad idea.

[Wordupmybrotha]

I'm definitely against it, although not necessarily for religious reasons. Our criminal justice system has convicted many innocent people. Our juries routinely get it wrong. Giving them the responsibility to take one's life is a bad idea.

A legitimate reason. I can see that

[lmcc0072]

Even vicious serial murderer Ted Bundy was trying to bargain for his life when he was executed. He murdered so many, yet he didn’t want to die himself. State sponsored execution is not just a punishment, but a deterrent for some. Yes the Bible says an eye for an eye and follow laws and obey your employer, etc...but these are laws and punishments on earth. If you don’t repent for your sins and change then when your day of reckoning comes before God you’ll be judged for eternity.

On another note, abortion is legal in the United States. These unborn babies are of no threat to anyone and have never harmed anyone. Do you consider abortion murder too? If I had the power to save one or the other, it certainly wouldn’t be the convicted killer.

[USMCM16A2]

Philosophical hand wringing, the Bible is clear. You take a life, you must pay with yours. Society and the rules of proper human conduct have become so laden with exceptions, exclusions, and mainly excuses. It makes capital punishment difficult if not impossible to implement.
Gas chamber, electric chair, lethal injection. 20 years worth of court battles, millions in legal fees. Simple firing squad, 1873 Supreme Court ruled it as a proper humane legal manner of execution. No more hand wringing about which method. A2

[eta34]

This is an issue that will never be settled. It seems clear that the Bible condones capital punishment. Whether or not it demands it is less clear.

[socal m1 shooter]

I think this is a very reasonable perspective.

The Bible is very realistic in the wisdom it dispenses, but a couple of points have to be kept in view:

Wisdom is revealed cumulatively in the Bible. You don't pull a verse or two out of context and cite it to justify whatever you're arguing for or against.

Proverbs is a good example of this, where understanding what it really says means digging out all the verses pertaining to a particular topic and considering the nuances when those verses are taken together, which is the opposite of how many modern first-world people usually read the book. They find verses which could be construed as contradicting each other, such as Proverbs 26: 4-5The Law of Moses does not apply to followers of Jesus of Nazareth. At the same time, Christians are clearly told that God has instituted human authority (government at all levels) for various reasons and we are to submit to that authority insofar as it does not run contrary to the authority of God. Sometimes human authority imposes capital punishment. Is it wise or unwise?

The Bible often presents a third alternative as a solution to false dichotomies that mankind wrestles with, argues over, and divides over. Capital punishment, I would submit, has to be balanced with other concerns. It can be shown that enforcing capital punishment, particularly in California, is more costly than life imprisonment by a factor of at least two, neglecting other costs (such as litigating multiple levels of trial and appeal after appeal). Seeing as how the state is generally poorly run, and wastes a lot of money, is it good stewardship to ignore the costs of prosecuting a criminal through several levels of court trials, and then to house them on death row for years? The last time the death penalty was carried out in California was 2006, and the cost of prosecuting those unenforced death penalty verdicts has been several billions of dollars over the past several decades. In this case I think a cost vs. benefit perspective is wise.

[Dave Hoback]

I don’t call myself a “Christian” because of how far reaching it can go. I am a Believer. I Know Christ & have a relationship with Him. Those who understand that have been named by The Father as I have.

It’s interesting how people who openly claim they are NOT Christian, but that they know much about it. No, you know absolutely nothing. Your eyes are closed as a blind man, your ears are closed as one who is deaf. You CAN’T understand. I myself know nothing, but God has opened my eyes, my ears & my heart. And He reveals more of Himself to me every day I study His Word & glorify Him.

That said, I know Capital punishment is against Gods law. He commanded “Thou shall not kill!”. Not, thou shall not kill....., UNLESS X happens! Christ told us to turn the other cheek. There was no “but you don’t have to turn the cheek if it’s in self defense”. I know it’s sinful. Yet I am glad when a child murderer is put to death. I hear stories of rapists & child murders doing such evil acts, and I have wished their punishment could be they are locked in a windowless room with me! And I know that is sinful. I don’t go to states where it’s outlawed, protesting to reinstate Capital punishment. But I don’t speak up in states where it is legal either. And I shed NO tears for the sick animals masquerading as human beings who are put down. And I know that is sinful.

I am a sinner, and I very often “remind” The Lord of how weak I am apart from Him...how much I need His hand to guide me. One day He will make me perfect in His sight. Until then I am imperfect, and Christ is my only connection to His forgiveness.

[Barang]

This is an issue that will never be settled. It seems clear that the Bible condones capital punishment. Whether or not it demands it is less clear.

God already said it. He made a determination that whoever shed's another man's blood wil be put to death.

[Sailormilan2]

I think this is a very reasonable perspective.

There are many other examples, such as alcohol consumption. To borrow one Bible teacher's turn-of-phrase, the Bible takes a perspective of ambivalent appreciation when it comes to consuming alcohol. While intoxication is expressly forbidden, clearly there were times and places where consuming a reasonable amount of alcohol could be appropriate. Jesus of Nazareth made wine and drank wine at times. Or, take polygamy as another example. The OT records many instances of polygamy, but collectively the various accounts paint a negative picture of that practice. Yet nowhere does the Bible explicitly prohibit polygamy. Likewise gambling.

I find it interesting the number of groups that say that drinking alcohol is a sin, clearly ignoring the express commands in the Law to give wine(specifically "fermented" wine) to the Priests with each sacrifice. Even the quantities of the wine are specified.
Some groups just don't want the Bible to get in the way of their beliefs.