Has Jesus's material message been misinterpreted?

[Wordupmybrotha]

I feel like I was saved from wasting my time. Thanks for treading the water guys

+1 yep

[justMike]

Since we're speaking hypothetically, I have a question for you: what if there were no hypothetical questions?

In that case, knowledge would be stagnant. That would be fine for those who find all they need between the covers of the Bible. Fortunately, in my opinion, that is not most people.

[WASR10]

In that case, knowledge would be stagnant. That would be fine for those who find all they need between the covers of the Bible. Fortunately, in my opinion, that is not most people.

I guess it depends on what they are looking for.

[justMike]

Matthew 6:9-13King James Version (KJV)

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

[wpage]

There is no 2nd guessing the word. It is what it is...

[RozaShanina]

You assume way too much about me and my comment. It seems you have an axe to grind with someone.

My comment does not discount the real social, political, and economical climate of the New Testament period.

But it is clear and evident that Jesus concerned himself with matters of the soul and of the heart, not so much matters of the body and the wallet. He was not a social justice warrior, no matter how much some people today would hope. Please consider the following passages:

- John 18:36

- Matthew 6:25-33

[billvau]

Sorry, but this sounds like cut-and-paste exegesis. John 18:36 is translated just fine with "of" instead of "from." "of" fits the context, syntax, and noun structure of the verse.

Yes, God created the world and said it was "tov" (OK Hebrew transliteration). But what does that mean? How many times is tov used in Genesis 1? It's part of the structure of the passage and has specific meaning. Yes, John 1:3, 1:14 are true. So also are all the other passages on creation in the Bible. What's your point?

Jesus spoke about a lot of things. BUT, the quantity of His comments on a given subject doesn't give them more weight! Every word He spoke was absolute truth and needs to be obeyed - even if He only spoke on it once. There's no principle of hermeneutics that says quantity makes for greater quality or importance.

[WASR10]

This is a pretty good illustration of the problem of ripping verses out of context and saying they stand for something.

Every verse provided illustrates the separation between the physical and the spiritual.

That is not a very good translation of John 18:36. This is a much better translation: John 18:36 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my followers would be fighting to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not from here.”

Why is the translated I provided no good? The words OF and SERVANT? The word translated as ‘of’ is ek. Which can mean, depending on the context, ‘of’ ‘from’ or ‘by.’ The word expresses orientation. So, ‘of’ is appropriate here. The word in your translation offered as ‘follower’ is hyperetes, which means “subordinate’ or ‘one who serves.’ How again is the translation I provided inferior? How again does it not serve the point?

The other verses are not contrasting the physical and the spiritual but are speaking of trust and anxiety.

Anxiety over what? Physical means? Is He telling us that we should not allow our spiritual wellbeing be affected by our physical?

In terms of of the physical (if you can even separate the physical from the spiritual which seems more of a concept of Greek philosophy than Biblical theology there are these huge biblical references:

I invite you to read Revelation, which is a great example of the Bible differentiating between the physical and the spiritual.

God creates the physical world and says that it is "tov".

Tov, (actually in the context in which you cite, the word is towb ) means 'good.' God created a place for us to exist and it was good. Is your contention that this is proof that our physical condition is equal to our spiritual?

"And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth." John 1:14

"All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being." John 1:3

Have you considered WHY the Word became flesh? Was it to save us from poverty? Or was it to experience such things, be the lowest of the low, and still triumph in faith?

Jesus spoke more about wealth and the dangers of wealth than He did about prayer.

Why is wealth dangerous? Is it because it can affect our spiritual wellbeing?

Jesus spoke of the physical only in terms as it affected the spiritual. Again, I maintain, His concern was (and is) the spiritual. Read the Sermon on the Mount. Read what He has to say about who we make our master, God or wealth. We are all slaves to something. Is it physical or spiritual? There certainly is a difference.

[kteas1]

Socialism gives a man his fish. Capitalism teaches him to fish for himself.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[justMike]

Capitalism genetically modifies the fish so that it can survive a toxic environment, made toxic by the drive to make things 'cheaper',
and externalizes (doesn't deal with at any level) the costs associated with the toxicity it produces for everyone else. What would Jesus do/recommend?

[mossy]

Socialism gives a man his fish. Capitalism teaches him to fish for himself.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Wrong, capitalism is a store where you can buy fish that were grown in farm rather than caught in the ocean.

[WASR10]

Capitalism genetically modifies the fish so that it can survive a toxic environment, made toxic by the drive to make things 'cheaper',
and externalizes (doesn't deal with at any level) the costs associated with the toxicity it produces for everyone else. What would Jesus do/recommend?

Sorry, but what you described is not capitalism but government interference with free-market. And what does Jesus have to do with it?

[justMike]

Wrong, capitalism is a store where you can buy fish that were grown in farm rather than caught in the ocean.

The producers and the retailers would both be capitalists, would they not?

[justMike]

Sorry, but what you described is not capitalism but government interference with free-market. And what does Jesus have to do with it?

Exactly where did I mention any government interference? I think you are projecting there. I simply describe a very likely scenario commonly found in capitalism and the aftermath, nothing about a government.
You do recognize that there were toxic lethal fogs that overtook London during the good old unfettered coal industrial age capitalism, right? Maybe that God planned to take those 12.000 dead there in 1952.
No problem, an acceptable price for the profits in your view I'd speculate. Way lots of capitalistic profits to be made on War too. Always has been, even notably the Crusades.
Didn't Jesus and or the Scriptures prescribe being good stewards? I'd say good stewardship is in jeopardy of becoming extinct. Got any example where socialism caused large environmental damages/ toxic releases-consequences?
Standing by.

[TrailerparkTrash]

You do recognize that there were toxic lethal fogs that overtook London during the good old unfettered coal industrial age capitalism, right? Maybe that God planned to take those 12.000 dead there in 1952.
No problem, an acceptable price for the profits in your view I'd speculate. Way lots of capitalistic profits to be made on War too. Always has been, even notably the Crusades.

What are you talking about exactly? Are you promoting socialistic forms of oppressive government rule or socialistic economies or both? Are you suggesting that socialism has been more beneficial to society than capitalism upon democracies and Republics? What point were you trying to make by bringing up the crusades? Do you even know what the crusades were, let alone what century it took place? (I’m sure you’re googling it right now because you don’t exactly know).

Didn't Jesus and or the Scriptures prescribe being good stewards? I'd say good stewardship is in jeopardy of becoming extinct.

I’d say trying to weaponize scripture in order to justify a “toxic” form of government rule is something Jesus would defiantly never support.

Got any example where socialism caused large environmental damages/ toxic releases-consequences?
Standing by.

Man you have no idea what you’re asking. You’ve really backed yourself into a corner with that last question.... Socialism has caused not only wide spread pollution, decay, and poverty, but it’s also caused more human suffering as well as overall environmental disasters on a “biblical” scale (pun intended).

Here’s just but one article you can find out there on the web about the “terminal” effects of socialism:

https://fee.org/articles/why-socialism-causes-pollution/

I also think you probably should have brought this topic up in some sort of political debate forum.