A Rabbi dies, what happens.

[Rizzo]

Thank you all for your input on the rabbi issue.

I can understand why some said that the rabbi would go to hell.
It's because of a Bible passage that suggests that you need to go through Jesus in order to get to the Father (in heaven).

So the good Rabbi would find himself in hell with rapists, murderers, molesters, etc., etc.......hardly a just "punishment" for not taking the "correct" route, I feel.

I have read the whole Bible and while it is full of wonderful teachings I found it hard to understand in many parts.
Even the apostles would mutter to each other about what Jesus just said and ask "what did he mean by that"?

I think that over time with all the translations involved that some of the true meanings have gotten lost.

My common sense or intuition is telling me that God would not send the rabbi to hell for his direct devotion to God rather than going through Jesus instead.

[MaHoTex]

My common sense or intuition is telling me that God would not send the rabbi to hell for his direct devotion to God rather than going through Jesus instead.

^^^ This right here!

[DTENG]

There is so much speculation going on here it is hard to keep it all straight. To judge if a person will go to heaven or hell is to presume oneself is Christ. Here is what the Church teaches and has taught for over two millennia:

The good and the evil that the soul has done will be weighed in the balance of God's justice. Then the sentence will be passed by Jesus Christ alone, without the intervention of witnesses. This sentence is final and will never be reversed. The soul will learn the sentence, the reasons for it, and its absolute justice.

"But of every one to whom much has been given, much will be required; and of him to whom they have entrusted much, they will demand the more" (Luke 12:48).

If that soul never knew Christ, I am sure Christ will sort that out. To speculate on what Christ will decide on any individual at their judgement is time wasted. Time would be better spent with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

[billvau]

There is so much speculation going on here it is hard to keep it all straight. To judge if a person will go to heaven or hell is to presume oneself is Christ. Here is what the Church teaches and has taught for over two millennia:

The good and the evil that the soul has done will be weighed in the balance of God's justice. Then the sentence will be passed by Jesus Christ alone, without the intervention of witnesses. This sentence is final and will never be reversed. The soul will learn the sentence, the reasons for it, and its absolute justice.

"But of every one to whom much has been given, much will be required; and of him to whom they have entrusted much, they will demand the more" (Luke 12:48).

If that soul never knew Christ, I am sure Christ will sort that out. To speculate on what Christ will decide on any individual at their judgement is time wasted. Time would be better spent with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

no one here "judges" whether anyone goes to hell! BUT, we did answer the question from many perspectives. No one here assumes that they are judge of anyone's eternity.

"The Church?" What "church?" The church of the NT (Eph. 1:23)? If that's the case, then you can only quote Scripture. If you mean any other form of "church," then it has no authority unless it agrees with Scripture properly interpreted. So, again, what "church" do you refer to?

Thanks,
Pastor Bill

[DTENG]

Sorry, but he'd go straight to hell per the Bible.Bill

This is judgement. You nor the Bible can make that judgement, only Christ.

[Doheny]

This is judgement. You nor the Bible can make that judgement, only Christ.

Christ has already said that the only way to the Father is through him (Jesus.)

John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

[RAMCLAP]

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Anyone who doesn't believe in Christ doesn't have to wait to be judged. They are judged already. The Bible is the Word of Christ who is the Word of the Father.

[NYT]

Hopefully you guys understand that the Bible wasn't written in or for the English language.

Historians believe it has been translated into various forms of the English language for almost 500 years. Putting stock into a collection of short stories designed for the reader to live a just life is its only purpose.

Arguing semantics of the wording is in itself, idiotic.

[RAMCLAP]

Hopefully you guys understand that the Bible wasn't written in or for the English language.

Historians believe it has been translated into various forms of the English language for almost 500 years. Putting stock into a collection of short stories designed for the reader to live a just life is its only purpose.

Arguing semantics of the wording is in itself, idiotic.

We can translate it into modern American English. Historians don't believe, they know it has been translated into many languages. When translated the translators use the semantics of the first century Greeks or pre-Christian Greek/Hebrews not the modern day languages. Not idiotic.

[NYT]

We can translate it into modern American English. Historians don't believe, they know it has been translated into many languages. When translated the translators use the semantics of the first century Greeks or pre-Christian Greek/Hebrews not the modern day languages. Not idiotic.

See? You even read my post incorrectly. Historians cannot say for sure if it has been translated (in English) 400 or 500 times, they just don't know. They believe it is around 500. That alone should be a red flag when consciously damning another religion to the hell as you understand it.

Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic, all had several dialects, thus different idioms and meanings.

[RAMCLAP]

See? You even read my post incorrectly. Historians cannot say for sure if it has been translated (in English) 400 or 500 times, they just don't know. They believe it is around 500. That alone should be a red flag when consciously damning another religion to the hell as you understand it.

Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic, all had several dialects, thus different idioms and meanings.

Incorrect. When Alexander conquered his empire, he called for his top scholars to form a common dialect for the entire empire. It is called Koine. Sometimes referred to as "Alexander's Common Greek". The Hebrews called 70 of their top scholars to translate the OT into this Koine Greek. That translation is called the Septuagint. Jesus and the Apostle's were fluent in the common Greek and wrote the NT in the common greek. We have enough parchments from the first and second centuries to make an entire NT. So, we can translate that into any modern language and dialect. So, historians DO know. Theologians know. Everyone knows how many languages it's been translated into from the original and unaltered Greek. So, the only red flags that there are is when men pontificate ex-Biblica.

[billvau]

See? You even read my post incorrectly. Historians cannot say for sure if it has been translated (in English) 400 or 500 times, they just don't know. They believe it is around 500. That alone should be a red flag when consciously damning another religion to the hell as you understand it.

Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic, all had several dialects, thus different idioms and meanings.

As a pastor, I translate from the original Greek and Hebrew for EVERY sermon I do. I cannot depend on English translations, because they do differ. But, because of textual criticism, I see not only the original of the manuscripts I use, but also the textual variants, so I know if other manuscripts differ (which they rarely do, and then on minor words). And, yes, I studied idioms, etc. Meanings are determined by context, just like in English.

Have you studied these things so that you can speak as authoritatively as you are? What's your favorite manuscript? What family of manuscripts do you prefer?

[Richochet]

A Jew responds

I was raised in the Jewish faith. Jews do not believe in a heaven or afterlife.
The spirit returns to God. There are no pearly gates. Heaven is here on Earth, and you make the best of it. The Jewish view of the historical Jesus is that he was a Rabbi, or teacher. He was not accepted as the Messiah by Jews at time primarily because the Jews sought a military leader.

Jews are respectful of Jesus and his teachings. The earliest Christian sect was composed of Jewish followers. Tolerance is sought by all religions and respect for others beliefs.

[billvau]

I was raised in the Jewish faith. Jews do not believe in a heaven or afterlife.
The spirit returns to God. There are no pearly gates. Heaven is here on Earth, and you make the best of it. The Jewish view of the historical Jesus is that he was a Rabbi, or teacher. He was not accepted as the Messiah by Jews at time primarily because the Jews sought a military leader.

Jews are respectful of Jesus and his teachings. The earliest Christian sect was composed of Jewish followers. Tolerance is sought by all religions and respect for others beliefs.

I think you'll find that most Jews do believe in heaven/afterlife because it's in the Hebrew Bible. At the time of Jesus, the Sadducee's didn't believe in an afterlife and Jesus confronted them on that. The Scribes/Pharisees did believe in heaven/hell.

What's your source of authority on religious "facts" as you see them?

[SelfGovernor]

I'm back, my turn
I don't have time to hang around here until everyone else is asleep, and since I tend to be an insomniac here I am...

Believe it not.
Yes, there are many online Bibles, but they don't interpret Scripture properly, just give their translation of it. You need a proper interpretation (1 Cor. 2, especially v. 10-13; Eph. 4:11-16).

If we are splitting hairs, yes. But I think most of the popular English translations are good enough to fulfill Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man..."

Satan is not responsible, each person is (Rom. 5:12). He's only "responsible" for his own sin (Is 14).

Satan is granted power over the unsaved world, but fully under God's control (e.g. Job 1-2). ALL things are under Christ's ultimate control - even now (Eph. 1:19-23).

Sorry if my statement about Pastors/Priests was off base, looking back it did sound condescending. But I have listened to sermons that echoed the idea that God does bad things to people and it's OK because he's God...
I don't see this in the scriptures. God is not cruel and does not inflict harm except in cases of justice.

I'm in agreement with what you wrote earlier "god of this world..." so I must not have expressed myself well...

I don't believe that God Causes diseases, tornadoes, hurricanes etc, but rather these are the result of sin (Adam & Eve...). God created the world perfect (Eden) but when men decide to believe the Word of satan instead of the Word of God, death entered the world and satan was allowed temporary dominion.

2 Tim. 2:4 God "desires all men to be saved."

Christ has direct control RIGHT NOW, but God's will is that He carrying out history this way. He'll be back when He wills it (1 Thes. 4:13-18).

Pastor Bill

Indeed

SG