A Rabbi dies, what happens.

[Rizzo]

A hypothetical question to Christians.

A boy is born into a Jewish family.
As the boy grows he is taught their religious customs and grows to love God very much. So much so he decides to dedicate his life to God and to spread His word by becoming a Rabbi.

This Rabbi lives a good life and spreads the word of God to many people.
He prays every day to God and is totally devoted to Him.

Ultimately the Rabbi dies.

1. Will he go to heaven?

2. ....or, does St. Peter meet him at heaven's gate and say to him that although he lived a good life he has to go to Door #2 (hell) because he did not believe in Jesus?

To be upfront, I am referring to the Bible passage that states that nobody gets to the Father without going through Christ.
I am not answering my own question here because I do not believe that literal statement to be true.

The loving God that I know and feel in my heart would not reject that Rabbi.

[billvau]

Sorry, but he'd go straight to hell per the Bible.

you're hypothetical situation represents ALL Jews past, present, and future who rejected/rejected their Messiah. People forget that Jesus Christ came to earth TO His people - the Jews - and they rejected Him. And, Judaism ended with the church (Eph. 2:15).

The problem is that man's righteousnes (goodness) is as filthy rags as Isaiah says. IOW, our standard of goodness falls infinity short of God's standard (Romans 3:23). The Rabbi may help the old lady across the road (good deed) and I may help an old lady across the road (good deed), but *ultimately* his deed is done for his own glory and mine is for God's glory. He is unable to do ANYTHING to glorify God in his unsaved state (i.e. not having accepted the free gift of salvation from Jesus Christ).

There are no people "good enough" to please God apart from those in Christ. And, yes, John 6:44 - no one comes to the Father unless the Father draws him" is true and just as true as any other verse in the Bible. No picking and choosing.

Tough stuff to wrap our human reasoning around.
Bill

[Dano3467]

^^^This has much merit ^^^

[Red-Osier]

Matthew 7:21-23

[hunterb]

I struggle with this very question.

The Christ I know and have studied, was so full of love and forgiveness that I have a hard time believing He would let the righteous and good burn in hellfire for eternity, regardless of the religious affiliation. I feel organized religion is a construct of man and has nothing to do with Christ.

[Red-Osier]

I struggle with this very question.

The Christ I know and have studied, was so full of love and forgiveness that I have a hard time believing He would let the righteous and good burn in hellfire for eternity, regardless of the religious affiliation. I feel organized religion is a construct of man and has nothing to do with Christ.

What I posted above is Christ's own words, Matthew 7:21-23

[NYT]

the world was so very small when the bible was constructed. isnt it amazing how they didnt even conceive of other cultures from around the world and who their god was?

imagine a buddist monk, someone who quite literally never knew christ as christians perceived him to be, somehow being less than a small group of people who lived in and around the middle east.

in reality, christ is just a model of a perfect human being. each religion has their savior, this is how each religion's followers believe they will transfer to their "heaven" if they live a just life.

pretty cool stuff.

[billvau]

I struggle with this very question.

The Christ I know and have studied, was so full of love and forgiveness that I have a hard time believing He would let the righteous and good burn in hellfire for eternity, regardless of the religious affiliation. I feel organized religion is a construct of man and has nothing to do with Christ.

Consider studying ALL of Christ, not just the love and forgiveness. Christ spoke MORE of hell and eternal damnation than ALL the other writers of Scripture. Christ said no one comes to the Father unless through Me" (write off ALL Eastern religions, etc.). Christ said that He ALONE was the truth, the way and the life (John 14:6). Christ constantly battled the Jewish leaders of His day. What was the essence of that conflict? ANY man-made religion/way to heaven was false. He was the only way ("Follow Me"). But, you also had to take up your cross and deny yourself, and trust follow Him only. The rest of the NT merely expands and details His teaching through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Bill

[jimmykan]

On the other hand, if a guy like Paddock repents and accepts Christ just before he shoots himself in the head, he gets into heaven. Correct?

[billvau]

On the other hand, if a guy like Paddock repents and accepts Christ just before he shoots himself in the head, he gets into heaven. Correct?

yes, just like the thief on the cross. IF he knew enough to get saved, his conscience was working enough that the mass killing probably wouldn't have happened. He was too close to salvation and the convicting work of the Holy Spirit was far along (John 16)! And, *if* he had truly repented and got saved, then he would not have probably taken his own life - a serious sin!

We'll find out in eternity. I'm not betting on seeing him there!

[71MUSTY]

I suspect the Rabbi would be very upset indeed if he was met at the pearly gate of Heaven by St. Peter since he believes in neither.

He would be happier to find himself in Gehinnom or Sheol.

I am not a scholar but I understand the Jews are God's chosen people. God's promise to them is different (not better or worse) then his promise to Christians.

[DolphinFan]

A hypothetical question to Christians.

A boy is born into a Jewish family.
As the boy grows he is taught their religious customs and grows to love God very much. So much so he decides to dedicate his life to God and to spread His word by becoming a Rabbi.

This Rabbi lives a good life and spreads the word of God to many people.
He prays every day to God and is totally devoted to Him.

Ultimately the Rabbi dies.

1. Will he go to heaven?

2. ....or, does St. Peter meet him at heaven's gate and say to him that although he lived a good life he has to go to Door #2 (hell) because he did not believe in Jesus?

To be upfront, I am referring to the Bible passage that states that nobody gets to the Father without going through Christ.
I am not answering my own question here because I do not believe that literal statement to be true.

The loving God that I know and feel in my heart would not reject that Rabbi.

You describe Jesus. He was a rabbi, (teacher of the Torah, the Old Testament), he was devout to God. He died.

Christian/Islam/Judaism ALL believe in the SAME GOD.

Everyone is basically Jewish.

But to answer your questions:
1) No
2) No

This is what I found on the internet about the Rabbi:

Many faiths have definitive teachings about the afterlife. But in answer to the question "What happens after we die?" the Torah, the most important religious text for Jews, is surprisingly silent. Nowhere does it discuss the afterlife in detail.

Over the centuries a few possible descriptions of the afterlife have been incorporated into Jewish thought. However, there is no definitively Jewish explanation for what happens after we die.


THE TORAH IS SILENT ON THE AFTERLIFE
No one knows exactly why the Torah doesn't discuss the afterlife. Instead, the Torah focuses on "Olam Ha Ze," which means "this world." Rabbi Joseph Telushkin believes that this focus on the here and now is not only intentional but also directly related to the Israelite exodus from Egypt.

According to Jewish tradition, God gave the Torah to the Israelites after their journey through the desert, not long after they fled a life of slavery in Egypt. Rabbi Telushkin points out that Egyptian society was obsessed with life after death. Their holiest text was called The Book of the Dead, and both mummification and tombs such as the pyramids were meant to prepare a person for existence in the afterlife. Perhaps, suggests Rabbi Telushkin, the Torah does not talk about life after death in order to distinguish itself from Egyptian thought. In contrast to The Book of the Dead, the Torah focuses on the importance of living a good life here and now.

JEWISH VIEWS OF THE AFTERLIFE
What happens after we die? Everyone asks that question at one point or another. Though Judaism does not have a definitive answer, below are some of the possible responses that have emerged over the centuries.

Olam Ha Ba. "Olam Ha Ba" literally means "the world to come" in Hebrew. Early rabbinic texts describe Olam Ha Ba has an idyllic version of this world. It is a physical realm that will exist at the end-of-days, after the Messiah has come and God has judged both the living and the dead. The righteous dead will be resurrected in order to enjoy a second life in Olam Ha Ba.

Gehenna. When the ancient rabbis talk about Gehenna, the question they are trying to answer is "How will bad people be dealt with in the afterlife?" Accordingly, they saw Gehenna as a place of punishment for those who lead an immoral life. However, the time a person's soul could spend in Gehenna was limited to twelve months, and the rabbis maintained that even at the very Gates of Gehenna a person could repent and avoid punishment (Erubin 19a). After being punished in Gehenna, a soul was considered pure enough to enter Gan Eden (see below).
Gan Eden. In contrast to Gehenna, Gan Eden was conceived as a paradise for those who lived a righteous life. Whether Gan Eden--which means "The Garden of Eden in Hebrew"--was intended as a place for souls after death or for resurrected people when Olam Ha Ba comes is unclear. Exodus Rabbah 15:7 states, for instance, "In the Messianic Age God will establish peace for the nations and they will sit at ease and eat in Gan Eden." Numbers Rabbah 13:2 makes a similar reference, and in both cases, neither souls nor the dead are mentioned. Nevertheless, author Simcha Raphael suggests that given the ancient rabbis' belief in resurrection, Gan Eden was likely a place where they thought the righteous would go after they were resurrected for Olam Ha Ba.
In addition to overarching concepts about life after death, such as Olam Ha Ba, there are many stories that talk about what might happen to souls once they arrive in the afterlife. For instance, there is a famous midrash (story) about how in both heaven and hell people sit at banquet tables piled high with delicious foods, but no one can bend their elbows. In hell, everyone starves because they think only of themselves. In Heaven, everyone feasts because they feed each other.

[billvau]

You describe Jesus. He was a rabbi, (teacher of the Torah, the Old Testament), he was devout to God. He died.

Christian/Islam/Judaism ALL believe in the SAME GOD.

Everyone is basically Jewish.

But to answer your questions:
1) No
2) No

This is what I found on the internet about the Rabbi:

Well...no, everyone is NOT basically Jewish. What was Adam? NOT Jewish. The "nation" of Israel started with Abraham (not a Jew either) and is NOT an "race" but a nation, a "culture."

And, NO, Christian/Islam/Judaism do NOT ALL believe in the SAME GOD. Heavens no! The Bible teaches otherwise! Even Jesus told the Jewish Leaders that descendency does not equate to having God (John 8:58f). The Christian God is the God the Bible. The god of Islam and all Judaism post-cross is Satan. That's what the Bible teaches, hence, God's word on the subject. Not my word but the truth.

Glad you were honest that you found this on the internet and not in the Bible!

Bill

[Doheny]

[DolphinFan]

Well...no, everyone is NOT basically Jewish. What was Adam? NOT Jewish. The "nation" of Israel started with Abraham (not a Jew either) and is NOT an "race" but a nation, a "culture."

And, NO, Christian/Islam/Judaism do NOT ALL believe in the SAME GOD. Heavens no! The Bible teaches otherwise! Even Jesus told the Jewish Leaders that descendency does not equate to having God (John 8:58f). The Christian God is the God the Bible. The god of Islam and all Judaism post-cross is Satan. That's what the Bible teaches, hence, God's word on the subject. Not my word but the truth.

Glad you were honest that you found this on the internet and not in the Bible!

Bill

Do you believe there is more than one god? Then you are a Pagan.

Jews, Christians, and Islam ALL derive from the Old Testament. It is the FOUNDATION for ALL monotheistic religions. They are all Abrahamic. They ALL believe in the SAME GOD.

If you wish to continue debate I'm happy to discuss in PM.