Why didn't death enter the world after Satan's rebellion?

[Wordupmybrotha]

Parable:

The greatest coder that ever graced Gods green Earth, let's call them Pat, finally accomplished that which all others in the tech world before him tried to achieve, creating AI.

He noticed though, in the coding, that the AI would eventually come to the mind that humans are causing more damage than good to the Earth, and decide to exterminate the problem.

Pat thought hard and long about the moral and ethical implications of changing the code so the AI would not come to these decisions. Is it ethical to change somethings DNA or code to effect it in such a way that if not changed, the AI could come to its fullest potential reaching, maximum consciousness at the cost of humanity?

Is it unethical to not change the code?

If Pat decides to not change the code, and they release the AI into the world, and the AI comes to a quick realization that humans are no good, and destroys most of humanity, whose fault is it?

Is it the completely conscious AI's fault?

Does pat bear any responsibility as not only the creator but also the one whom not created that which destroyed humanity, but did so knowingly beforehand whilst having the power to stop it at any time before or during the destruction?

Is it merciful for Pat to offer humanity a Virus Protector that would protect you from the eternal ramifications, yet go through the pain and torment the same as those without the protector?

And along the lines of free will...

If you could choose anything about your life, what do you believe is the most important decision you can make about your life, that had the power to change any and everything about you? Aside from giving your life to Christ and realizing what true peace and joy are, of course.

Sgt. J Beezy,
I think it's best to start your own thread regarding free will. That's a big beast all on its own.

[Wordupmybrotha]

Op!!! This^^^
Don't waste your time tring to understand God or His workings... you will never know. Only He is in the know concerning the big plan.

May I suggest daily meditation. I can tell you that meditation has taught me more in the past year than 10 years of going to church.

Yes, we can't know everything, but I think that's how we grow in faith and understanding of the scripture. How is someone going to grow in the knowledge of God if we don't put forth the effort to study and think? Are we not supposed to be curious?

[Wordupmybrotha]

Great questions!
Sin existed before Adam's sin because Satan and a third of the angels fell in sin before Adam. But, Angels aren't people, they are a different being. The Bible speaks of other beings, some in the supernatural realm, some on earth. Angels were created before Adam. Their realm is the supernatural realm. They can exist in our realm, but it is not their natural realm. Like Adam, they were created in what we call a state of "unconfirmed holiness." 2/3 chose holiness and will be forever holy. 1/3 chose to rebel and will forever be fallen (Rev. 12:4). The fallen angels will eternally be in the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20:10). There is eternal death for their sin. No plan of salvation for fallen angels.

Romans 5:12 speaks of sin and death entering the world through Adam. There was no death in the world before the fall. Animals didn't die (Adam was commanded to be a vegetarian). Nothing died. But with the fall, the earth fell ("subjected to futility" Romans 8:19-22) too. And, of course, God will destroy this fallen world and create a new one (2 Peter 3:10-13; plus Rev. 19ff). But, the "world" is man's realm, not angels and men are not of the same "kind" as angels. When you read Genesis 1, you clearly see that man is the pinnacle of God's creation (Gen. 1:25-30). Everything was created for him and he was to be God's appointed ruler of the earth (Gen. 1:26).

Sorry for the lack of organization. This got my coffee break time.

Other great associated questions:

1. Satan tempted Eve, and the Genesis 3 account seems to imply that she sinned first. So, why does Adam get credit for the first sin (Romans 5:12)?
2. Romans 5:12 says "death spread to all men - because all sinned." How did you and I sin AT THE SAME EXACT TIME that Adam sinned?

God bless,
Bill

Cool, thanks for your insight.

[RAMCLAP]

Who's speaking on behalf of God?

If it is not dealt with in the scriptures then it is speculation. Once one attempts to speculate they are trying speak in His place. Not wise.

[waveslayer]

They are referring to two deaths . Spiritual death and temporal death. Because of the fall of Adam we all will physically die, thus Jesus overcoming death through the resurrection. Then the spiritual death is from the fall of Adam not allowing us to be in the presence of God and Jesus Christ. Thus the Atonement of Jesus satisfied both deaths. Spiritual and temporal

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

[Wordupmybrotha]

If it is not dealt with in the scriptures then it is speculation. Once one attempts to speculate they are trying speak in His place. Not wise.

I disagree, but we're entitled to our opinions.

[RAMCLAP]

Fair enough.

[Dezrat]

To be Scripturally accurate, Satan is not an Angel(original word meaning most literally "messenger"), but a Cherub. (Eze 28:14)
There's a distinction between Angels and Cherubim in the Scripture.

edited, thanks to reminder from WASR10..

[WASR10]

If we want to take it one step further we can note that Satan is never actually called Lucifer in the scriptures. It was applied to him at some point outside of the writings, most likely just before 1600 (to the best of my recollection). The only place the name Lucifer appears scripturally is in a Latin vulgate rendering, such as the old KJV, in Isaiah 14, which is a condemnation of Nebuchadnezzar II. The word is translated in other renderings as 'shining one' or 'morning star.'

Not that it matters too much, we all know who is referenced when the name Lucifer comes up in discussion.

[Wordupmybrotha]

1. Satan tempted Eve, and the Genesis 3 account seems to imply that she sinned first. So, why does Adam get credit for the first sin (Romans 5:12)?
2. Romans 5:12 says "death spread to all men - because all sinned." How did you and I sin AT THE SAME EXACT TIME that Adam sinned?

God bless,
Bill

[billvau]

#1 is exactly correct. Adam, the husband was head over his wife.

Most people don't notice Genesis 3:6 says that Adam was "with her" during her temptation and sin. He saw and allowed this to happen when he was responsible for stopping her. Instead, he watched, allowed and even participated!

Ge3:6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

#2 is also correct but a highly debated verse and there are other views from godly men. Romans 5:12 is considered the most difficult verse in the New Testament. It clearly teaches that somehow we were all there and participated in Adam's sin! But "how" is the question. This gets into the whole subject of what it means to be "in Adam." What you gave is the Reformed answer and it is based on Hebrews 7:9-10:

Heb7:9 And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, 10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.

Since this other verse clearly gives an example similar to Romans 5:12, Scripture supports Scripture in what many consider a parallel construction.

But, still, somehow, we were all there. We can say that we would've sinned too. ugh.


Thanks for taking the time to answer!

God bless,
Bill

[Wordupmybrotha]

^Cool, thanks for clarifying.

[Sailormilan2]

There are some that teach that Adam had the greater sin, since God personally told him to not eat of the Tree. Gen.2:15,17. Eve received her instruction from Adam, as there is no mention of God telling her.
When Paul speaks of this, he states that the woman was deceived, but Adam was not deceived. Adam knew what he was doing, and did it deliberately.
It was Adam's act, not Eve's that brought sin into the world,

[WASR10]

This brings to question the idea of 'Original Sin' and whether we are all born guilty of Adam's sin, or simply with the capacity of sin and we are guilty only of our own. Very interesting stuff! I like it

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Dezrat]

OK, I'll enter with what is just purely "intriguing speculation", but with some Biblical basis.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, "THE FIRST MAN ADAM BECAME A LIVING BEING." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Jesus depicted as the last Adam. Consider a way that he was the last as in juxtaposition to the first. Adam indeed sinned, but could it be we don't consider what could quite possibly be his motivation?
Eve ate of the fruit. Adam hadn't yet. I'm convinced he believed God and knew at that moment Eve had entered into death. He hadn't.
Could it be that he chose(sinfully) to "become sin" rather than live eternally without his Bride? The last Adam chose(obediently) to become sin rather than live eternally without his.
Not in any way trying to excuse Adam, just intriguing speculation, and fun to discuss, maybe nothing more than that.