Saint Theresa

[RAMCLAP]

It doesn't matter what "Bill" nor even I say... It's what's in the bible. Reread the passages I already posted. "God AND Savior, Jesus Christ." How much more clarity does one need?

Yes I agree, to recoin the phrase "one what and three who's." I do recognize that each within the Trnity are distinct to the one God. But for someone to say that Jesus is not God, is not correct. That's what I was trying to clarify.

I was raised in a Lutheran Church, but became non-denominational about 30 years ago.

Ok. Who is it you're arguing against? I've gone through all of the posts and not one person said "Jesus is not God". What Billvau said was spot on and you seem to take issue with his statement for no known reason.

[TomMcC]

You still believe John, he's nothing but a mere mortal. Granted he was one of apostles but come on, he's human and no guarantee he spoke what Jesus teach.

If what you say is true, then we don't know anything about Jesus Christ, and we are still in our sins and God can't even preserve His word, which means He's a liar. Is this really where you're at?

[teg33]

What's "wrong" with "selling hopes" you ask??? Well first off and from a Christian standpoint, the practice of Joel Osteen is NOT biblical.

Osteen as well as countless others are false teacher that distort the bible horribly. His "teachings" are rift with sophistry and obfuscation. Hope is free to all who desire it from Jesus. But don't take my words for it, let's look what Paul said in his letters to Timothy and Corinthians, about the "Osteens of the world:

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3-For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4-They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

Paul calls those false teachers, "angels of light".....

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

...and what Peter said:

2 Peter 2:1-2
1-"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2-Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute."

I got your point but I still don't see anything wrong by that, they just selling "religion" albeit I'm sure they sell wrong kind of religion and people bought it.

[teg33]

If what you say is true, then we don't know anything about Jesus Christ, and we are still in our sins and God can't even preserve His word, which means He's a liar. Is this really where you're at?

I don't think God is a liar, not at all. But is it possible that John was lying about Jesus teaching. Perhaps Jesus teaching is not what John prescribed. What guarantee that John spoke God words ? John can spoke his own words for his own benefits whatever it were

[billvau]

It doesn't matter what "Bill" nor even I say... It's what's in the bible. Reread the passages I already posted. "God AND Savior, Jesus Christ." How much more clarity does one need?

Yes I agree, to recoin the phrase "one what and three who's." I do recognize that each within the Trnity are distinct to the one God. But for someone to say that Jesus is not God, is not correct. That's what I was trying to clarify.

I was raised in a Lutheran Church, but became non-denominational about 30 years ago.

I hope you didn't think I was saying that Jesus is not God! He is FULLY God (Col. 2:9 and MANY more!). One God, three persons. All fully God. All distinct "persons." All distinct roles. But one God, one essence, one in being.

Bill

[TomMcC]

I don't think God is a liar, not at all. But is it possible that John was lying about Jesus teaching. Perhaps Jesus teaching is not what John prescribed. What guarantee that John spoke God words ? John can spoke his own words for his own benefits whatever it were

Your implication is that every writer of the OT and NT could have lied. If they could have lied, we don't know if anything in either testaments is true. If that is true then nothing in the Bible is reliable.........it is worthless. If it is worthless, then by what means has God revealed Himself? Or has He reveled himself at all?

As for the reliability of John, Jesus vouched for him, is that good enough? Since the the Bible is completely and totally internally consistent, and John is consistent with all the other apostles, it would seem that John spoke for Jesus. Really when it gets down to it, if you don't believe that the Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God, you simply can not be a Christian.

[colossians323]

A Church Divided Over Leaders

10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

[teg33]

Your implication is that every writer of the OT and NT could have lied. If they could have lied, we don't know if anything in either testaments is true. If that is true then nothing in the Bible is reliable.........it is worthless. If it is worthless, then by what means has God revealed Himself? Or has He reveled himself at all?

As for the reliability of John, Jesus vouched for him, is that good enough? Since the the Bible is completely and totally internally consistent, and John is consistent with all the other apostles, it would seem that John spoke for Jesus. Really when it gets down to it, if you don't believe that the Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God, you simply can not be a Christian.

Exactly what I mean, are the testaments true ? I believe Jesus is the one truth God but it's still concern me if the testaments are true coming from Jesus words. I knew the only Jesus apostle whom lives when Jesus was in flesh is John but no guarantee that John speak Jesus teaching.

Perhaps I'm not a good Christian but is it a sin to want find the truth ?

[Wordupmybrotha]

Exactly what I mean, are the testaments true ? I believe Jesus is the one truth God but it's still concern me if the testaments are true coming from Jesus words. I knew the only Jesus apostle whom lives when Jesus was in flesh is John but no guarantee that John speak Jesus teaching.

Perhaps I'm not a good Christian but is it a sin to want find the truth ?

No, it is not a sin to want to find the truth. On the contrary it is holy to want to find the truth as we are commanded to worship God in spirit and in truth.

A good book to read is A Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, which lays out evidence that the Bible is reliable. Hopefully you can come to accept that the Bible in its entirety is breathed by God and is inerrant word of God. Only then will you know the truth.

[TrailerparkTrash]

Who said Jesus wasn't God? The last few posts clarified that the three persons of the trinity make up God.

Yes and I agree. I think there was a miscommunication somewhere.

[TomMcC]

Exactly what I mean, are the testaments true ? I believe Jesus is the one truth God but it's still concern me if the testaments are true coming from Jesus words. I knew the only Jesus apostle whom lives when Jesus was in flesh is John but no guarantee that John speak Jesus teaching.

Perhaps I'm not a good Christian but is it a sin to want find the truth ?

Let's unpack your statement for a moment. Maybe ask a question or two. How do you know anything about Jesus? Is it not from the OT (the prophesied messiah) and from the NT (messiah has now come)? If so how do you know which parts are true and which are false. Did the writers of the Bible make the whole thing up, or just parts of it? If so, which parts are true and which parts are false? So you believe Jesus is the truth, but how do you know? There are many convincing proofs that the Bible is true and consistent in it's entirety, but that is not why people believe it ultimately, since the Gospel is foolishness to those that are perishing. You will or will not believe it because God wills it or doesn't. To deny the Bibles complete truthfulness is to deny the God of the Bible, since time after time after time the Bible claims to be God's word about himself and His creation, past, present and future, and to fall into utter skepticism. Jesus said that if you were His disciple you would know the truth, and the truth would set you free. It's not a sin to want to know the truth, but by picking and choosing what you will believe you have set up yourself as the ultimate authority rejecting God's authority. You have made yourself, a fallen and sinful man, the ultimate reference point for your life, and doubt has overcome you. Is that not the sin Adam and Eve committed ? ...........Has God really said? They would not submit themselves to God or believe Him, plunging the whole of humanity into darkness.

The questions for you is......can God preserve His word, has He preserved His word, and do you believe it?

[teg33]

Let's unpack your statement for a moment. Maybe ask a question or two. How do you know anything about Jesus? Is it not from the OT (the prophesied messiah) and from the NT (messiah has now come)? If so how do you know which parts are true and which are false. Did the writers of the Bible make the whole thing up, or just parts of it? If so, which parts are true and which parts are false? So you believe Jesus is the truth, but how do you know? There are many convincing proofs that the Bible is true and consistent in it's entirety, but that is not why people believe it ultimately, since the Gospel is foolishness to those that are perishing. You will or will not believe it because God wills it or doesn't. To deny the Bibles complete truthfulness is to deny the God of the Bible, since time after time after time the Bible claims to be God's word about himself and His creation, past, present and future, and to fall into utter skepticism. Jesus said that if you were His disciple you would know the truth, and the truth would set you free. It's not a sin to want to know the truth, but by picking and choosing what you will believe you have set up yourself as the ultimate authority rejecting God's authority. You have made yourself, a fallen and sinful man, the ultimate reference point for your life, and doubt has overcome you. Is that not the sin Adam and Eve committed ? ...........Has God really said? They would not submit themselves to God or believe Him, plunging the whole of humanity into darkness.

The questions for you is......can God preserve His word, has He preserved His word, and do you believe it?

I strongly believe Jesus is the truth God not from the bible. Few years back I was terrible sick, Doctor said I will only live for a few months. In desperation, I prayed once to Jesus to help me out and He did, I'm still alive today. So shamelessly I have to admit that I believe Lord Jesus Christ not from the bible but from His direct grace. So yeah, I'm not expert on Bible

[TomMcC]

I strongly believe Jesus is the truth God not from the bible. Few years back I was terrible sick, Doctor said I will only live for a few months. In desperation, I prayed once to Jesus to help me out and He did, I'm still alive today. So shamelessly I have to admit that I believe Lord Jesus Christ not from the bible but from His direct grace. So yeah, I'm not expert on Bible

Where did you learn about Jesus?

[teg33]

Where did you learn about Jesus?

When I was sick and stay in the hospice, a guy came and talk about Jesus. Back then I didn't believe God or any Gods. Even though I was skeptical, I did prayed once to Him. Just one pray, to save me and Im saved. Praise to His name.

[TomMcC]

When I was sick and stay in the hospice, a guy came and talk about Jesus. Back then I didn't believe God or any Gods. Even though I was skeptical, I did prayed once to Him. Just one pray, to save me and Im saved. Praise to His name.

Beyond the problem of Christ actually healing you because you prayed to him once (a cause and effect issue,), where do you think this fellow got his information about Jesus?