Isaiah 2:4

[Just Dave]

I've seen this verse used by political types within the church.

The cry goes out "Don't you think it's time to start turning out weapons into plowshares?"
Then they quote this "...they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks..."

Here's the complete verse.

And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war

What do you (both believers and non believers) think?

[RAMCLAP]

I guess I'm not following the context. Can you elaborate?

[Just Dave]

I guess I'm not following the context. Can you elaborate?

Simple, some people in the church will declare that it's time to convert our weapons into things like farming equipment.
In other words give up your guns, they'll use part of that verse to justify the call to do this.

I put the complete verse in a quote box.

What do you think?

[Sailormilan2]

My personal feeling is that it is referring to the absolute last days by reading verses 2 - 4. While one may say it is talking about now, I don't think it does, since God's House is not established on the mountain any longer.
So, I think it means when the New Jerusalem is established on this Earth. That is when there will no longer be war.

[RAMCLAP]

Why would anyone do that? We will be able to do that at that time. But for now it invites oppression of the weak. We are supposed to protect the weak not help their victimization.

[MotoriousRacing]

Except the "...and never again will they learn war." is incorrect. Israel is constantly 'at war'. Perhaps if Israel were to ditch all weapons, God will save/spare their lives from be slaughtered from the planet, but with ISIS, etc., it doesn't look like the slaughter would be prevented. It would take TREMENDOUS faith for Israel to lay down their weapons.

[RandyD]

I have always understood this to be when Jesus establishes His kingdom on earth, then we will never again need weapons, or to prepare for war.

[Von_Richthofen]

It's related to post Armageddon.. Applying it to today and justifying disarmament is an abomination! Besides, we just recently learned how to turn a shovel into an AK!

[Just Dave]

Why would anyone do that? We will be able to do that at that time. But for now it invites oppression of the weak. We are supposed to protect the weak not help their victimization.

Yes, why would they?

Except the "...and never again will they learn war." is incorrect. Israel is constantly 'at war'. Perhaps if Israel were to ditch all weapons, God will save/spare their lives from be slaughtered from the planet, but with ISIS, etc., it doesn't look like the slaughter would be prevented. It would take TREMENDOUS faith for Israel to lay down their weapons.

Randy's quote nails it.

I have always understood this to be when Jesus establishes His kingdom on earth, then we will never again need weapons, or to prepare for war.

Exactly. This is a prophetic passage having to do with the second coming when violence will be done away with, hence no need for weapons.

My OP is pointing out a false doctrine that's being passed around in church circles as an exhortation for Christians to disarm themselves.
This is one way the political left tries to infiltrate and sway the church. This is all the more reason to stick to sound biblical doctrine.

This is taken outside the UN building in NY, notice the first part of the verse is missing.


https://lotuseditions.files.wordpres...010/11/un1.jpg (bigger image)

Here's the statue.



Notice how God and what God is going to do is removed from the equation?

[wpage]

Jesus also said sell your coat and buy a sword...

[Not a Cook]

I've seen this verse used by political types within the church.

The cry goes out "Don't you think it's time to start turning out weapons into plowshares?"
Then they quote this "...they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks..."

Here's the complete verse.




What do you (both believers and non believers) think?

Since they take that verse completely out of context, you may want to offer another out-of-context verse:

Beat your plowshares into swords
And your pruning hooks into spears;
Joel 3:9-10 (NKJV)

[bohoki]

its what you do when the world becomes a utopia it is not prudent to disarm if there is anyone that wants you dead

[TomMcC]

Well I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in. As a historic postmillennialist. I believe Isaiah 2 to be a picture of a blessed millennium when the world will be Christianized, a golden age of the church. The nations will be for the most part subdued to Christ and war will essentially end. Weapons at a national level will be greatly reduced. There will be a long, long period of national peace. We may be close to the beginnings according to God's plan (even though the nations are at the present anti-Christian, God be able to convert quickly) but we have not arrived at the point of disarmament. I will say though I believe large standing and professional armies are troubling to me, and probably unscriptural. Much mischief has been perpetrated with armies in history.

[Just Dave]

Since they take that verse completely out of context, you may want to offer another out-of-context verse:

Beat your plowshares into swords
And your pruning hooks into spears;
Joel 3:9-10 (NKJV)

Ah ha! I'll remember that one

[Dezrat]

Well I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in. As a historic postmillennialist. I believe Isaiah 2 to be a picture of a blessed millennium when the world will be Christianized, a golden age of the church. The nations will be for the most part subdued to Christ and war will essentially end. Weapons at a national level will be greatly reduced. There will be a long, long period of national peace. We may be close to the beginnings according to God's plan (even though the nations are at the present anti-Christian, God be able to convert quickly) but we have not arrived at the point of disarmament. I will say though I believe large standing and professional armies are troubling to me, and probably unscriptural. Much mischief has been perpetrated with armies in history.

Don't even think about it Dave.........