God's Plan for Israel

[Xcountryrider]

I came across this remarkable video from John Piper on Gods plan for Israel.



John Piper preaches the Bible with wisdom and is not a Zionist.

[Not a Cook]

Xcountryrider - Good video.

Question: how do you define "Zionist"?

Below are some interesting quotes from the video you posted that clearly indicate Piper is teaching that all Israel will one day be saved (which it seemed you did not believe in a previous thread):

"... when the whole chosen nation is abandoned... for a season..."

"God can and will save all Israel without being bound to save any Jew because he's Jewish."

"... He will one day send the Holy Spirit in the most powerful way. Lift the veil. Take off the hardening. And instead of saying, "Huff, we're the Jews," they will never say that again. They will say, "Look at our messiah." And by grace alone, though faith alone, He will bring them in."

"... having abandoned Jews for a season, you would need to take some very special precautions so that those Gentiles did not say, 'they were broken off so that we might be grafted in'..."

And Piper also addressed, as did Paul in Romans 11, that we are not to have a haughty attitude toward those present-day Israelites who perish as broken-off branches:

"God can and will save the whole fullness of Gentiles who do not boast over the broken off branches."

Did you notice, also, that Piper apparently considers the Jews to be Israelites, unlike what you claimed in a previous thread?

I'm curious: out of the three threads you've started in this subforum, two directly dealt with Jews/Zionism/etc., and the third indirectly dealt with these related subjects. Why?

[Not a Cook]

Nice video ...!
http://mirajnews.com/middle-east/isr...bia-war-yaman/

Did you really just link to an anti-Jewish propaganda article/website in the "Discussions of Faith" subforum?

My prediction: your time in this subforum is likely to be short.

[Degrelle]

a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda: Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt: the covenant which they made void, and I had dominion over them, saith the Lord.

2 Corinthians 3:6-15 Who also hath made us fit ministers of the new testament, not in the letter, but in the spirit. For the letter killeth, but the spirit quickeneth. Now if the ministration of death, engraven with letters upon stones, was glorious; so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses, for the glory of his countenance, which is made void: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather in glory? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more the ministration of justice aboundeth in glory. For even that which was glorious in this part was not glorified, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is in glory. Having therefore such hope, we use much confidence: And not as Moses put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel might not steadfastly look on the face of that which is made void. But their senses were made dull. For, until this present day, the selfsame veil, in the reading of the old testament, remaineth not taken away (because in Christ it is made void). But even until this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

Colossians 2:14-15 Blotting out the handwriting of the decree that was against us, which was contrary to us. And he hath taken the same out of the way, fastening it to the cross: And despoiling the principalities and powers, he hath exposed them confidently in open shew, triumphing over them in himself.

Ephesians 2:15 Making void the law of commandments contained in decrees; that he might make the two in himself into one new man, making peace

Hebrews 7:18 There is indeed a setting aside of the former commandment, because of the weakness and unprofitableness thereof

Hebrews 8:1-13 Now of the things which we have spoken, this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of majesty in the heavens, A minister of the holies, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord hath pitched, and not man. For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is necessary that he also should have some thing to offer. If then he were on earth, he would not be a priest: seeing that there would be others to offer gifts according to the law, Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things. As it was answered to Moses, when he was to finish the tabernacle: See (saith he) that thou make all things according to the pattern which was shewn thee on the mount. But now he hath obtained a better ministry, by how much also he is a mediator of a better testament, which is established on better promises. For if that former had been faultless, there should not indeed a place have been sought for a second. For finding fault with them, he saith: Behold, the days shall come, saith the Lord: and I will perfect unto the house of Israel, and unto the house of Juda, a new testament: Not according to the testament which I made to their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt: because they continued not in my testament: and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the testament which I will make to the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my laws into their mind, and in their heart will I write them: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least to the greatest of them: Because I will be merciful to their iniquities, and their sins I will remember no more. Now in saying a new, he hath made the former old. And that which decayeth and groweth old, is near its end.

Hebrews 10:9 Then said I: Behold, I come to do thy will, O God: he taketh away the first, that he may establish that which followeth.

Matthew 21:43
Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof.




As for the zionists supposed real estate deal in the Holy Land, the Bible says this:

"When you shall have TRANSGRESSED THE COVENANT of the Lord your God, which he hath made with you, and shall have served strange gods, and adored them: then shall the indignation of the Lord rise up quickly and speedily against you, and YOU SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY FROM THIS EXCELLENT LAND, which he hath delivered to you."
Josue (Joshua) 23:16

WHO ARE THE CHOSEN PEOPLE TODAY?

"But you [speaking to the Christians] are a CHOSEN generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: Who in time past were not a people: but are NOW THE PEOPLE OF GOD

[colossians323]

Did you really just link to an anti-Jewish propaganda article/website in the "Discussions of Faith" subforum?

My prediction: your time in this subforum is likely to be short.

Reported................................look at the pic info

[Not a Cook]

a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda: Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt: the covenant which they made void, and I had dominion over them, saith the Lord.

2 Corinthians 3:6-15 Who also hath made us fit ministers of the new testament, not in the letter, but in the spirit. For the letter killeth, but the spirit quickeneth. Now if the ministration of death, engraven with letters upon stones, was glorious; so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses, for the glory of his countenance, which is made void: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather in glory? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more the ministration of justice aboundeth in glory. For even that which was glorious in this part was not glorified, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is in glory. Having therefore such hope, we use much confidence: And not as Moses put a veil upon his face, that the children of Israel might not steadfastly look on the face of that which is made void. But their senses were made dull. For, until this present day, the selfsame veil, in the reading of the old testament, remaineth not taken away (because in Christ it is made void). But even until this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

Colossians 2:14-15 Blotting out the handwriting of the decree that was against us, which was contrary to us. And he hath taken the same out of the way, fastening it to the cross: And despoiling the principalities and powers, he hath exposed them confidently in open shew, triumphing over them in himself.

Ephesians 2:15 Making void the law of commandments contained in decrees; that he might make the two in himself into one new man, making peace

Hebrews 7:18 There is indeed a setting aside of the former commandment, because of the weakness and unprofitableness thereof

Hebrews 8:1-13 Now of the things which we have spoken, this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of majesty in the heavens, A minister of the holies, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord hath pitched, and not man. For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is necessary that he also should have some thing to offer. If then he were on earth, he would not be a priest: seeing that there would be others to offer gifts according to the law, Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things. As it was answered to Moses, when he was to finish the tabernacle: See (saith he) that thou make all things according to the pattern which was shewn thee on the mount. But now he hath obtained a better ministry, by how much also he is a mediator of a better testament, which is established on better promises. For if that former had been faultless, there should not indeed a place have been sought for a second. For finding fault with them, he saith: Behold, the days shall come, saith the Lord: and I will perfect unto the house of Israel, and unto the house of Juda, a new testament: Not according to the testament which I made to their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt: because they continued not in my testament: and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the testament which I will make to the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord: I will give my laws into their mind, and in their heart will I write them: and I will be their God, and they shall be my people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me from the least to the greatest of them: Because I will be merciful to their iniquities, and their sins I will remember no more. Now in saying a new, he hath made the former old. And that which decayeth and groweth old, is near its end.

Hebrews 10:9 Then said I: Behold, I come to do thy will, O God: he taketh away the first, that he may establish that which followeth.

Matthew 21:43
Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof.




As for the zionists supposed real estate deal in the Holy Land, the Bible says this:

"When you shall have TRANSGRESSED THE COVENANT of the Lord your God, which he hath made with you, and shall have served strange gods, and adored them: then shall the indignation of the Lord rise up quickly and speedily against you, and YOU SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY FROM THIS EXCELLENT LAND, which he hath delivered to you."
Josue (Joshua) 23:16

WHO ARE THE CHOSEN PEOPLE TODAY?

"But you [speaking to the Christians] are a CHOSEN generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: Who in time past were not a people: but are NOW THE PEOPLE OF GOD

Of course, we who are followers of Christ are His chosen people. I don't think you'll find any Christian who would claim otherwise. However, that does not mean that the church has replaced Israel as God's chosen people, nor that God is through with Israel. Far from it! Instead, we read in Romans 11 that the Gentiles in the church are a branch that has been grafted into the olive tree which is Israel, and that the Gentiles in the church are used by God to provoke Israel to jealousy.

One of the scripture passages you noted above was from Jeremiah 31. Note WHO that passage speaks of, in Jeremiah 31:1 (NKJV) we read,
all the families of Israel

That entire passage is not speaking of the Gentiles in the church... it is specifically speaking of Israel.

Now, on to the very verse you quoted, Jeremiah 31:31-32 (NKJV),

when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of JudahMy covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.

Did you notice that the new covenant spoken of in Jeremiah is made with - NOT Gentile Christians - the house of Israel and the house of Judah. This new covenant is with the Israelites. You see, there is a future day coming in which God will save all Israel. A day in which ALL Israel will miraculously (by God's grace) turn to Him and embrace Christ as the meshiach. How do I know this? Consider these verses from Romans 11:25-32 (NKJV),

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be savedbut concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

By God's grace, there is a day coming in which ALL Israel will yet be saved through Christ and thus many as-yet-unfulfilled prophecies shall be fulfilled, all to the glory of God.

[eb47]

I've heard of Mr. Piper but never heard any of his teachings until this video. Although he seemed compassionate, I couldn't watch the whole video. Thanks for sharing.

[Xcountryrider]

John Piper is probably the most famous reformed Christian teacher of this generation. Here is his take on Palistine.

http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/should-we-side-with-israel-or-palestine

[Xcountryrider]

[Xcountryrider]

[Loubot10]

From the linked source: http://mirajnews.com/about-us/

"DEFINITION
Mi’raj Islamic News Agency (MINA) is the first Islamic News Agency and the only one in Indonesia that is based on Islamic principles. MINA is expected to enrich the global media that is Islamic and increase international support for Palestinian independence.

The presence of MINA is a real follow-up of the results of the International Conference and Liberation of Al Aqsa Mosque in the Palestinian Liberation Bandung in July 2012. MINA is an alternative medium in order to compensate for global domination by Zionist influenced opinion. In disseminating information, MINA clearly brings to light the truth, justice, security, peace and honesty and the trust in accordance with the teachings of Islam."

"Thus, the assumption, “If you want to control the world, you must control oil” is no longer relevant today. The relevant assumption now is “If you want to rule the world, you must master the world mass media.”

OP, you seem to be working awfully hard at dressing up what you really want to say.

[keenkeen]

Linking videos without comment is a waste of bandwidth.

If one is going to start a post and link a video how about taking two minutes and giving some thoughts on the content?

Seems lazy otherwise...

[keenkeen]

John Piper is probably the most famous reformed Christian teacher of this generation.

He is also a big time anti-gunner...

That should make his prognostications real popular on this site.

Good stuff.

[eb47]

He is also a big time anti-gunner...

That should make his prognostications real popular on this site.

Good stuff.

Yeah, I doubt that Jesus would have been against firearms. He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

[teg33]

I don't know God's plan for Israel but I do know for sure, once Iran or any Arab countries obtained nuclear weapon capability, Israel will be doomed and it existence will perish. Unless they do something about it now.