Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) Could Soon Recognize Same-Sex Marriage Read more at http

[RAMCLAP]

^^^This is very accurate.

[American Samurai]

No surprise, it's PCUSA, they're basically shills for anything liberal.

[Subotai]

Approved: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/18...-constitution/

Edit: Presbyterians vote to leave Christianity.

[Not a Cook]

Approved: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/18...-constitution/

Edit: Presbyterians vote to leave Christianity.

Very, very sad. 1 John 2:18-19 (NKJV) seems sadly appropriate:
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

[RevrendEarl]

Can any of you "Christians" name or quote 1 single thing Jesus ever said about homosexuality? And as far as "leftist causes" I believe When Jesus returns that he too will align more with the left than the religious right, because they are neither.

[WASR10]

Can any of you "Christians" name or quote 1 single thing Jesus ever said about homosexuality? And as far as "leftist causes" I believe When Jesus returns that he too will align more with the left than the religious right, because they are neither.

Hello Earl.

First,

"And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?" - Matthew 19:4-5

Now admittedly, Christ here is speaking about marriage and divorce. But He does make a point regarding that relationship being male and female.

Second,

Are you suggesting that anything in the Bible that is not the spoken word of Christ be discounted? Set aside? Or is it all inspired of God (2 Timothy 3:16)? Please remember, Christ said,

"These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." - John 14:25-26

You would have to ignore these words of Christ to ignore the words of His apostles. So which words do you choose to ignore? Which words will Christ permit you to ignore?

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day." - John 12:48

I think I will choose to heed every word.

[POLICESTATE]

Can any of you "Christians" name or quote 1 single thing Jesus ever said about homosexuality? And as far as "leftist causes" I believe When Jesus returns that he too will align more with the left than the religious right, because they are neither.

Two things:

Jesus fulfills ALL scripture, so it's not just what He said while here on Earth. It also includes what his Apostles wrote by direction of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus will not be aligning with anything of man, it's the other way around. We are supposed to align with Him. He's not a leftist, or on the right. That's all people stuff, God is so far above all of this He's out of sight!

[Not a Cook]

Bingo; WASR10 nailed it (and so did POLICESTATE, after I started typing this post). The Scriptures are quite clear that homosexuality is an abhorrent sin. In addition to those passages WASR10 already cited, there are many other relevant passages such as Romans 1, Leviticus 20:13, 1 Corinthians 6, etc., which make it clear that God has declared homosexuality to be a very serious sin.

The good news is that, even though homosexuality is an abhorrent sin, homosexuals can still be saved by God's grace through faith in Christ, just as all the rest of us can. Consider what Paul wrote to the congregation at Corinth in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NKJV):

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Note that some of the Christians in Corinth had been homosexuals, but were subsequently saved by grace through faith in Christ and were then washed, sanctified, and justified by God. They did not continue on in homosexuality, nor would they have been welcome to fellowship with the congregation if they had continued on in sin (ref. 1 Corinthians 5:11). What the PCUSA has now voted to do is in direct contradiction to the clear instructions of 1 Corinthians 5:11. Those in bondage to any sin need to be called to repentance and salvation, not told that "they are alright just the way they are". Christ came to save sinners, but not so that we should continue in sin, but rather that we should be born again and evermore walk in the spirit rather than walk in the flesh.

[hasserl]

I think the point of that passage in Corinthians is not that the people never sinned in the same ways as before. Undoubtedly some of them continued to do some of the things they were caught up in the past. Even if it was nothing more than thinking about it and lusting, they were still guilty of the sin. The point of that passage is that they no longer are identified as those things he listed (idolators, adulterers, etc), they now are forgiven sons and daughters of God, that is their identity now. And when they do fail and succumb to passions and sinful nature, they confess their sins, repent and rest assured of God's forgiveness. That is the point.

[hasserl]

Can any of you "Christians" name or quote 1 single thing Jesus ever said about homosexuality? And as far as "leftist causes" I believe When Jesus returns that he too will align more with the left than the religious right, because they are neither.

How come you put the word Christians in quotation marks? Your screen name is Reverend Earl. Are you a "reverend"?

Some people have a thing for animals, can you name or quote 1 single thing Jesus ever said about bestiality? There are a lot of perversions I could itemize here. Are we to assume that since he didn't specifically speak out against such things that he is perfectly fine with them? Is that the logic you are using?

[Subotai]

Also, Romans 1:27. "and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due."

[RevrendEarl]

Would Jesus Discriminate?

How come you put the word Christians in quotation marks? Your screen name is Reverend Earl. Are you a "reverend"?

Some people have a thing for animals, can you name or quote 1 single thing Jesus ever said about bestiality? There are a lot of perversions I could itemize here. Are we to assume that since he didn't specifically speak out against such things that he is perfectly fine with them? Is that the logic you are using?

[Subotai]

^that's a stretch. Being "gay" is not the issue. Homosexual sex is.

[WASR10]

Well here it is said, yes I am a Reverend

What you post is almost word for word (or perhaps copy and pasted) from a website called WouldJesusDiscriminate.com or something. I've read it before. The term Born Eunuchs refers to those born physically unable to contract matrimony. The three descriptions of eunuch by Christ merely refer to those who do not marry, either by natural causes, forced servitude, or voluntary reasons. It has nothing to do with homosexuality. The lengths some have gone to to justify sin such as this is amazing.

Of course this argument does not address the further question - How does one decide to ignore some words of the New Testament, and yet recognize the others? There is much one would have to ignore in order to claim that Christ would overlook unrepentant sin.

And further still, how does whether one being born a certain way alleviate them from sin and the need of forgiveness? Many Christian institutions teach that all are born sinners. Is one sin given a pass the rest do not receive?

ETA: I'm not entirely happy qith my phrasing here, but I haven't the time to edit at the moment. I hope I stated my points clearly. Thanks.

[Not a Cook]

Well here it is said, yes I am a Reverend and I may point out to you and others, No I do Not claim that Jesus did not speak of homosexuality. In fact something left out of the quote from Matthew referred to by WASR10 and word from POLICESTATE's statement, Discussion: Matthew 19:10-12

Some Christians confidently assert that God did not create homosexual people "that way." This is important because they realize if God did create gays "that way," rejecting them would be tantamount to rejecting God’s work in creation. In pressing their “creation order” argument, some Christians are fond of saying, "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" To bolster their position, they often cite Jesus’ words in Matthew 19:4-5, where he responds to a question about whether divorce is permissible:

“Jesus answered, ‘Have you not read that the One who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh”? Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate.’ ”

From these words, some Christians draw the conclusion that heterosexuality is the creation norm and, thus, heterosexual marriage is the only legitimate way for people to form romantic relationships. Ironically, Jesus’ own words in this very same passage refute these conclusions.

As the dialogue continues, Jesus’ disciples are disturbed by his strict teaching on divorce. The disciples say that if divorce is not a ready option, perhaps it would be best for a man not to marry a woman. Jesus responds:

“Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (Matthew 19:11-12)

Here Jesus identifies three classes of men who should not marry women. Taking his categories in reverse order, first, there are those who have made themselves “eunuchs” for the kingdom of heaven, i.e., those who foreswear marriage to better serve God. Second, he mentions those who have been “made eunuchs by others,” an apparent reference to castrated males. But Jesus mentions a third category — eunuchs who were born that way. Some might argue that Jesus was referring to males born without testicles, but this would be extremely rare. Moreover, this interpretation ignores how the term “born eunuchs” was used in other literature of the time.

In the ancient world, including ancient Jewish culture (as reflected in the Talmud), “natural” or “born” eunuchs were not associated with missing testicles. Rather, they were associated with stereotypically effeminate characteristics and behavior (just like modern gay men), and were thought by Rabbi Eliezer to be subject to “cure” (just like modern gays). Moreover, as we have also seen, eunuchs were commonly associated with homosexual desire. (For a complete discussion of the term "born eunuch" and the connection with homosexuality, see The Early Church Welcomed a Gay Man.) As a reasonably informed person of his time, Jesus would have been aware of this common view of eunuchs. Yet he very matter-of-factly asserts that some people are simply born that way. The implication of his statement is profound — God created gay people the way they are! Jesus says so.

Unlike Rabbi Eliezer, Jesus feels no need to “cure” these born eunuchs. He speaks no words of condemnation. Rather he lists people born gay alongside another honored class (eunuchs for the kingdom), and accepts them as a natural part of God’s creation order.

Thus, when Matthew 19 is read as a whole, we see Jesus teaches that most people are created for heterosexual marriage. (We too accept this as God’s predominant creation paradigm.) But, unlike some modern Christians, Jesus does not see this as the only honorable way to live. He acknowledges that some human beings have been created by God to follow a less common, but equally legitimate path. There are some who have been eunuchs from birth — made that way by God. Some people chose and pick which part of the bible to listn to and omit those parts which they disagree with. My question and reason for the quote marks around the word Christians, is Would Jesus discriminate?

Wow... just "wow"! What you wrote above is one seriously messed-up misinterpretation and misapplication of a scriptural passage!

To put it bluntly, you've got some real bad information and used it to come to one very incorrect conclusion. You cited (and all your info. appears to come from) "The Early Church Welcomed a Gay Man", but that article is simply false. It isn't based on the Scriptures, but rather someone wrongly attempting to force something into the text which simply isn't there. Want more info regarding this? Then I suggest reading this brief article: http://www.apologeticspress.org/APCo...7&article=3761 There is absolutely NOTHING in the Scriptures to indicate that the Ethiopian eunuch was homosexual. Without that, the entire claim that "The Early Church Welcomed a Gay Man" falls flat on its face. They might as well have claimed "The Early Church Welcomed a Time Traveling Vulcan" and attempted to prove that all Christians should say "live long and prosper". It's an absurd argument. The author of that article simply MADE SOMETHING UP, and tried to use that supposed "fact" (which was not at all an actual fact) to "prove" his preconceived conclusion was "scriptural". All the author of that article actually proved was that he is untrustworthy and should not be teaching the Scriptures. It's a horrible abuse of the Scriptures, clearly done to further an ungodly agenda. Consider what the Scriptures clearly teach about homosexuality - several here have already posted some of the clear citations previously. If you want even more citations and more discussion regarding what the Scriptures teach about homosexuality, this article should be helpful: http://www.apologeticspress.org/apco...7&article=1401

In answer to your question, "Would Jesus Discriminate?", let's consider what the Scriptures teach concerning that:

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

“Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matthew 25:31-46 (NKJV)

So... "yes", based on the Matthew passage above, it looks like Christ definitely discriminates. In fact, it's safe to say He is the biggest discriminator of them all, since His discrimination has eternal consequences of the greatest magnitude! You may also find this brief article that broaches this subject interesting: http://www.christiantoday.com/articl....too/41262.htm

That said, I'll repeat what I previously wrote, "The good news is that, even though homosexuality is an abhorrent sin, homosexuals can still be saved by God's grace through faith in Christ, just as all the rest of us can. Consider what Paul wrote to the congregation at Corinth in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NKJV):

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Note that some of the Christians in Corinth had been homosexuals, but were subsequently saved by grace through faith in Christ and were then washed, sanctified, and justified by God. They did not continue on in homosexuality, nor would they have been welcome to fellowship with the congregation if they had continued on in sin (ref. 1 Corinthians 5:11). What the PCUSA has now voted to do is in direct contradiction to the clear instructions of 1 Corinthians 5:11. Those in bondage to any sin need to be called to repentance and salvation, not told that "they are alright just the way they are". Christ came to save sinners, but not so that we should continue in sin, but rather that we should be born again and evermore walk in the spirit rather than walk in the flesh.