LASD M&P revisited...

[arod7615]

I heard from the "grapevine"(dont believe everything you hear) that It would take at least 2 years to swap all personnel to the M&P's.

[Ron-Solo]

I heard from the "grapevine"(dont believe everything you hear) that It would take at least 2 years to swap all personnel to the M&P's.

Sounds about right. It took almost three years for the revolver to Beretta conversion back in the 80's.

[desertexplore]

Tagged.

[arod7615]

I still don't understand and may never know why they didn't choose "Glock" for example. It's a DAO like the M&P. Maybe the guys at Smith gave the County a good deal like they did with CHP, which chose the S&W 4006tsw over the SIG.

[Seaweed02]

SamuelX

SamuelX,

I am a Parole Agent and my department has also switched to the M&P. However the ones we use are specially made just for our department. If you were to order an M&P with an external safety, it would not have the magazine release safety feature, and if you have a normal one with the magazine release safety feature, then it would not come with the external safety feature. Well my department, CDCR Division of Adult Parole Operation, insisted on having both features. So Smith and Wesson made a special model that has both safety features just for us.

I read in your post that you thought the external safety would be a good thing to have, and I agree. You can buy one of these special M&P's in either 9mm or 40cal from All State Police Equipment in Pomona CA. for a very reasonable price. When Parole Agents were given the opportunity to purchase their own M&P for both duty and off duty carry, that is where I bought mine. Just thought I would let you know.

Someone said they shoot better with another model weapon. It may be, but I think it is a personal thing because I own two M&P's and can't miss with either one of them. Very very accurate weapons.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

Yes, I believe the M&P at All State is around $500 OTD

[Samuelx]

Hey Seaweed, thanks for the info. My information is that our M&Ps are also semi-custom for us from S&W. Unfortunately, an M&P with a safety would be a no-go for me simply due to department policy.

I'm actually relieved I don't like the M&P more. I bought a 92F when I turned 21, way back when. Bought a red flannel type shirt, grew my hair out, watched the three stooges, and went shooting a bunch but was never good enough to make that smiley face in the target. lol So, I had a Beretta long before I got sworn and was happy with it and, as Spec was alluding, I have a bunch of Beretta 92 series gear and parts (as well as a couple more 92FSs). I really wasn't looking forward to spending the same amount of $$ for the M&P too...

[Ron-Solo]

I still don't understand and may never know why they didn't choose "Glock" for example. It's a DAO like the M&P. Maybe the guys at Smith gave the County a good deal like they did with CHP, which chose the S&W 4006tsw over the SIG.

One of the big blocking factors with the Glock is that to field strip you have to pull the trigger. Not so with the M&P pistols.

I tried the version with the external safety. Hated it. None of my M&P pistols have it.

[S2V]

Agreed Ron... none of my M&P's have safetys... I love it that way too...

My compact is deadly accurate...

[arod7615]

Thanks Ron for the info! It makes sence they don't want AD's I guess.

[SoCalDep]

Hey guys, sorry for my lack of response...I was at SHOT and hate posting from my cell phone. Here is some information for you...

Even the recent class of Security Officers got issued the M&Ps...

Ya, deputies at the stations have been sigining up for the conversion classes. We are definitely not out of M&P's.

We have them now. We had been out of M&Ps for almost a year, hence the issuance of the Beretta to the last several academy classes. The current class (393) and SOs have M&Ps and it should be this way from here on out.

I don't like the stock slide locking mechanism on the M&P - I would rather it have a "lip" or "ledge" for better contact (even with a smoothly operating one). I like the lever on the 92FS better.

Our models are external safety-less. I'm kinda leery about that and would rather have a safety or decocking lever.

This has been a continual and heated debate between the tactical shooting community for years. Some advocate never using the "slide lock" to release the slide, saying it requires too much fine motor skill. Others argue hitting the slide lock/release is a little faster. I did a bunch of testing/training using both methods on a shot timer and found I could be a little faster with the slide release and was a little more consistent (on the M&P) with the power-stroke/roll-rack method. We are focusing on the "roll-rack" method because we approve several different pistols and the roll-rack works for all of them, but students will be offered the choice of using the slide release also... Whatever works for them. The slide-release lever is a bit low profile, but it (almost) solves a VERY common problem with recruits and in service deputies, which is they lock the slide open with their thumb while firing. We train to keep the thumb away, but in stress, many bring it in against the frame/slide.

The safety is another debate in itself, and there are valid points on both sides. A big reason for the "no safety" guns is simplicity. We've seen a significant number of problems with deputies failing to disengage the safety on the Beretta and/or accidentaly engaging it while shooting. I have never had this problem and think it's a training issue, but our training is limited and the vast majority of deputies are very happy to see the safety gone.

Trigger was just OK. Stock is pretty gritty but I really didn't notice it all that much while shooting in a hurry. After feeling how good it Could be, however, the stock trigger Sucks Balls (lol)! I like my 92FS trigger better.

The M&P trigger can be made pretty sweet, but on a duty gun DON'T DO IT! You will be in trouble, and in my experience the stock trigger works well. Most deputy's shooting scores improve with the consistent trigger pull and over time and several hundred to a thousand rounds with a couple good cleanings the trigger smooths out well. It is without a doubt not as nice as the Beretta's SA pull, and for accuracy, I still think the Beretta wins by a long shot, but for combat shooting at semi-realistic targets (as opposed to bullseye shooting from SA) most deps adapt better to the M&P than the DA/SA transition, especially out to 25yds.

I THINK (wasn't able to shoot back to back to compare) recoil for the M&P was more manageable and follow up shots seemed quicker than with the 92FS - I think mostly due to the bore axis being lower/closer to your grip with the M&P.

I liked the shape and adjustability of the M&P grip but I would prefer it to be a little more "rubbery" rather than "plasticky". My 92FS grip is kinda "plasticky" due to the Crimson Trace LG-402 grips but the M9A1 lower I'm using has more aggressive "checkering" too.

The argument is the lower bore-axis of the M&P reduces felt recoil. I think it does reduce muzzle-flip, which does allow it to drive faster back on target, but the overall recoil impulse seems similar as the Beretta (to me) has a bit more flip but less overall recoil impulse. I find I'm about as fast with the Beretta. I think it may be somewhat dependant on who is shooting and body structure.

As for the rubbery v plasticy grips, many people will order replacement palm-swells and stipple them with a soldering iron or similar device. To me it makes the grip feel more rubbery, but I run mine stock and I've gotten used to it.

It's pretty damn cold up there man!

I keep forgetting about that damn cat being up there - I like cats and dogs but I'm allergic to both, especially cats. Still feeling it in my lungs today...

Holy smokes it's been cold! I was out of town this week, but I'm going in tonight and I'm layering big time. The cat has been there longer than I have been on the department, and I think it has more range senority than anyone there. I think it's a demon cat and try not to make it too angry. It often sleeps in the clearing barrel.

Btw Rico, during the Sims portion of 391's recent dynamic scenario training morning, more than a handful, maybe even two handfuls, of recruits needlessly ejected Sims rounds. I handed each of them an empty gun with the slide locked back and a loaded mag. Not sure if it was nervousness, fatigue, too much muscle on a chamber check, or something else on their part but it was flabbergasting that so many of them inserted the mag, released the slide forward, and then fully racked the slide again.

Samuelx, I had the same observation of recruits dropping the slide on a fresh mag, then racking the first round out to the ground. Hmmm.....

Thank you for letting me know... If you see anything else "unusual", please pm me or give us a call or shoot me an e-mail. I would be tempted to say it's because they haven't been to the range in a while and they never admin load from slide-lock, but I've already brought it up to the guys and we'll put some more emphasis on it from here on out.

I heard from the "grapevine"(dont believe everything you hear) that It would take at least 2 years to swap all personnel to the M&P's.

Yep... Probably longer. We are currently running two classes per week (sometimes just one class depending on academy and other classes scheduled) with twenty or so students in each class.

I still don't understand and may never know why they didn't choose "Glock" for example. It's a DAO like the M&P. Maybe the guys at Smith gave the County a good deal like they did with CHP, which chose the S&W 4006tsw over the SIG.

As was mentioned in prior posts, the Glock issue centers around having to pull the trigger to disassemble. That's over our heads. Personally, and having put somwhere between 40-60 thousand rounds through three different M&P pistols, and seeing recruits, security officers, and regular deputies fire hundreds more M&P with thousands more rounds, I'm very happy with the M&P. It works very well. Glocks seem to work very well also, but I saw one of the relatively few we have come through start to completely poop itself as soon as the recruit put a light on it. I've never seen an issue with any M&P with a light.

Hey Seaweed, thanks for the info. My information is that our M&Ps are also semi-custom for us from S&W. Unfortunately, an M&P with a safety would be a no-go for me simply due to department policy.

The M&Ps are stock LE models with no mag or external safety. S&W did use many of our suggestions and feedback to update to the current model, but it is not custom. (I wish!!!)

[desertexplore]

Thank you for all of the information in this thread.