LEO experience I had awhile back.

[Spanky8601]

By not moving right you would be violating 21654. CA VC 21654 has nothing to do with prima facie just impeding traffic. This is where most people fall short of understanding and try to be the immovable object because they are obeying the law. Well, they are actually breaking the law and being a smug a-hole about it.

History has shown that authority figures never prevent law breaking. They are simply there to give the ticket or make the arrest.

On most freeways, the mere presence of law enforcement causes reckless driving in people. Even if they are not doing anything wrong. I see it all the time. Everyone can't help but stare at the wolf.

The PRIMA FACIA speed has to do with a SAFE SPEED, like the speed limits in school zones or business districts or where the proper authorities say the speed limit is XX MPH. The MAXIMUM SPEED LIMIT is just that the maximum speed you are legally allowed to travel. This is usually set at 65 MPH and in some areas 70 MPH. You are mixing terms.

21654 (a) VC applies to those going less than the MAXIMUM SPEED allowed. So if someone is doing 70 MPH on a rural freeway they cannot be legally charged with impeding. Regardless of how big a jerk we may think they are.

[cruising7388]

Then again, I am not sure if everyone prefers my style of driving a black and white on the freeway... sticking firm with the speed limit in the fast lane... while a huge group piles up behind me.

Do you seriously think that jamming up the Hammer lane and messing with the flow of traffic makes the freeway a safer place to drive? Ordinary citizens that jam up the Hammer lane, driving at the legal limit, preventing vehicles using the lane for passing, are subject to citation. Assuming a routine patrol, are traffic laws for LEOs any different than they are for the rest of us?

[yzErnie]

I think some of you may be missing the point. If a car is traveling at the speed limit, in the fast lane of a 4 lane freeway, that is not impeding. Impeding would be if you were in the fast lane doing 60 instead of 70 and the cars behind you are numerous. You cannot impede, by the CVC definition, if you are doing the speed limit. Just because someone wants to travel faster than the speed limit does not justify an impeding violation.

[yzErnie]

By not moving right you would be violating 21654. CA VC 21654 has nothing to do with prima facie just impeding traffic. This is where most people fall short of understanding and try to be the immovable object because they are obeying the law. Well, they are actually breaking the law and being a smug a-hole about it.

I'm not going to say I have a halo over my head by driving down the freeway in the fast lane at the speed limit. I'll usually do 5-10 over just like every one else. I figure if it is my time to get a ticket then so be it. I feel pretty secure doing those speeds because I know there will always be some jackhole driving like an idiot that would get the cops attention before he gets interested in me. Have not been pulled over in 20+ years and no tickets in the last 37 years. Probably just jinxed myself...lol

By doing the speed limit someone is a smug a-hole? Laughable.

[BomarFab]

I've always wondered about the few cops I see that don't always follow the rules they enforce on the road. I was once ticketed for 70 in a 65 by a chp that blew past me at least 20mph faster than I was going. He asked me if I knew the speed limit. I so badly wanted to ask him if he did.

[Notorious]

Ordinary citizens that jam up the Hammer lane, driving at the legal limit, preventing vehicles using the lane for passing, are subject to citation.

What would you cite the citizen for when he is driving at the legal limit? Tinted windows? Expired registration? Bald tires? Defective wipers?

[retired]

By not moving right you would be violating 21654. CA VC 21654 has nothing to do with prima facie just impeding traffic. This is where most people fall short of understanding and try to be the immovable object because they are obeying the law. Well, they are actually breaking the law and being a smug a-hole about it.

History has shown that authority figures never prevent law breaking. They are simply there to give the ticket or make the arrest.

On most freeways, the mere presence of law enforcement causes reckless driving in people. Even if they are not doing anything wrong. I see it all the time. Everyone can't help but stare at the wolf.

If you wish to continue to be able to post and view this particular specialty forum, I would recommend you knock off the personal attacks or you won't be.

[penguinofsleep]

almost got rammed by a cop at a local in n out about a month ago:

10PM, two cops walking towards their vehicles at a very leisurely pace, talking and laughing loudly (aka are not leaving b/c of an emergency) and im slowly advancing towards the drive through (under 5mph). they get in their cruisers, 1 starts his engine right away and flies out of his spot, didnt even take time to buckle up or turn his headlights on. at least 15 mph in 1 sec, still in the small parking lot, almost hits 2 parked cars swerving around and my own (would have if i didn't slam brakes). next guy is worse - he is still sitting in his car, engine still off, suddenly starts up and flies out like his buddy did while im right in front of him. would have t-boned me if i didn't slam my gas and move pretty much into a curb at the same time. same deal, no headlights, no seat belt. he honks at me and then speeds off.

normally im ok with cops but this time the only thing i regret is not letting them hit me and seeing how they would explain that away. maybe sue them (individual, not the department) too - and i usually can't stand people who try to sue cops/departments.

EDIT: any calguns officers have an explanation for what or why they would drive like this that i simply wouldn't know about? ie if they rushed into their cars and flew out id understand that there was an emergency and wouldn't have given anything a second thought.


now more on point with the OP: a year or so ago I was driving home around 1130 or 12 at night, 405 south in OC. me and this 1 other car are literally the only ones there that night, 5 open lanes, im in the middle lane. odd b/c normally there are at least a few other cars out. i get on the freeway, hit about 72/73, cruise and being very tired after a long long day, dont realize its a cop behind me (i can normally recognize the make/model/rough year behind me w/o thinking, im that tired). guy starts tailgating me more, i speed up to 77, he gets closer, i hit 85, he stays really close, and not wanting to speed up more given how tired i was, i flash my blinker to move to the right. at that point he suddenly moves over to the left around me, and passes me and speeds off, at least 95 while i slow back down to 72. im surprised he didn't bait me into a ticket, but w/e.

in my childhood my old next door neighbor was a cop and we were pretty good with him. he did tell me that occasionally for laughs he and others in his department would mess with drivers around them given that it was safe just to see their reactions (this was a pretty quiet/safe area). ie he would keep looking at them (with a smile though) for a while but not do anything before finally driving off. pretty much what id do if i could be a cop for a day.

[IrishJoe3]

almost got rammed by a cop at a local in n out about a month ago:

10PM, two cops walking towards their vehicles at a very leisurely pace, talking and laughing loudly (aka are not leaving b/c of an emergency) and im slowly advancing towards the drive through (under 5mph). they get in their cruisers, 1 starts his engine right away and flies out of his spot, didnt even take time to buckle up or turn his headlights on. at least 15 mph in 1 sec, still in the small parking lot, almost hits 2 parked cars swerving around and my own (would have if i didn't slam brakes). next guy is worse - he is still sitting in his car, engine still off, suddenly starts up and flies out like his buddy did while im right in front of him. would have t-boned me if i didn't slam my gas and move pretty much into a curb at the same time. same deal, no headlights, no seat belt. he honks at me and then speeds off.

normally im ok with cops but this time the only thing i regret is not letting them hit me and seeing how they would explain that away. maybe sue them (individual, not the department) too - and i usually can't stand people who try to sue cops/departments.

.

You know....they have these cool little things on their belt called a radio. That as soon as a call comes out, they hear it. They'll hear it if they are eating lunch, or while walking back to their car, while getting in their car, or even while sitting in their car. And those calls can come over that radio at any moment, any time. Just sayin'.....

[yzErnie]

EDIT: any calguns officers have an explanation for what or why they would drive like this that i simply wouldn't know about? ie if they rushed into their cars and flew out id understand that there was an emergency and wouldn't have given anything a second thought.

Without attitude...you are asking us to explain something about their driving when we know nothing but your stated observations. An impossibility for us determine why they were driving like that.

[XDshooter]

If the prima facie speed is 65mph, and I am proceeding at the posted LIMIT. If there are cars behind me, all going at 65mph, then we all are within the law. How did I impede traffic by moving at the highest LIMIT allowed? Isn't that the absolute limit at which anyone can move? So if we are all at the same speed, who is impeded?

I think some of you may be missing the point. If a car is traveling at the speed limit, in the fast lane of a 4 lane freeway, that is not impeding. Impeding would be if you were in the fast lane doing 60 instead of 70 and the cars behind you are numerous. You cannot impede, by the CVC definition, if you are doing the speed limit. Just because someone wants to travel faster than the speed limit does not justify an impeding violation.

Yeah well if they are driving at the speed limit I am not going to cite them. I will not punish people for driving safely at the posted speed limit.

The law is very clear. "Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits"

[XDshooter]

See this website. They have very good videos illustrating congestion when motorists do not keep right. Anyone who drives in metro area would be able to relate.

http://californiakeepright.com/

[yzErnie]

California Keep Right was founded to address the problems that undisciplined motorists create on our roads and freeways. People driving slowly in the passing lanes cause a hazard by impeding the free flow of traffic.

If traveling at the speed limit, there is no requirement to keep right...period. If an officer was to cite a person for traveling the speed limit and not doing as you opine they should do, the officer would be laughed out of the courthouse.

"Undisciplined" does not mean doing the speed limit.

[IrishJoe3]

The law is very clear. "Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits"

Yes it is. Freeway speed limits are NOT prima facie speed limits.

[Notorious]

XD, you still have not answered my question.

After someone who is traveling at the speed limit in the fast lane yields, where in the law do you find the authority to then exceed the maximum POSTED speed limit?