SWAT AR-15's full auto?

[Ron-Solo]

I wasn't comparing the two. You think I don't know that? Believe me, I know the difference. Growing up my Dad was with SJPD until he retired. That situation was unique. I'm glad your buddy made it out okay. Where was his backup? That instance doesn't mean you NEED something like FA capabilities on RIFLES though. That's like saying citizens should be able to carry FA because you never know what will happen. It's just not practical. I'm not going to change anything, I get that. I'm also not trying to get into a flame war, so don't take it as that. I just believe FA rifles are impractical. If you want FA in a rifle cartridge you have belt fed weapons for that. FA SMGs are great, especially because they are DESIGNED for CQB just as what your buddy experienced. Much easier to control FA fire with a pistol cartridge than FA with a rifle cartridge.

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Steve,

I'm not trying to flame you. My reference was for others who are always trying to compare LE with military, when their missions are so totally different. I agree that for most situations, F/A is impractical for LE, especially in a rifle cartridge. But, the option should be available in case needed, and trained with to ensure the mission goes as planned.

In my buddies incident, it was a narrow stairwell and the #2 guy couldn't get up to help. The whole incident lasted just a few seconds from start to finish.

[Scuba Steve33]

Steve,

I'm not trying to flame you. My reference was for others who are always trying to compare LE with military, when their missions are so totally different. I agree that for most situations, F/A is impractical for LE, especially in a rifle cartridge. But, the option should be available in case needed, and trained with to ensure the mission goes as planned.

In my buddies incident, it was a narrow stairwell and the #2 guy couldn't get up to help. The whole incident lasted just a few seconds from start to finish.

I didn't take it as that and sorry if my post came off in any negative way. Reading it again I can see if you took it as that and want to say it wasn't intended. I hate not being able to tell tone through text.

I'm not really against LE having fully automatic rifles because I know they will be trained with them but to me it's just not practical when you can have 3 round burst. SMGs I'm all for. They are awesome. I've fired both the MP7 and Kriss FA. Beautiful weapons. I guess I just don't really see the NEED for a FA rifle when you're firing it in bursts anyway, which the 3 round burst does flawlessly.

[deadcoyote]

Our local SWAT has AR's that are full auto capable but there's been a screw put in place to block the selector from going into the 3 round burst position.

A lot of bay area agencies I've been to schools with had 10.5" FA AR's, seemed to be a pretty good shift in that direction rather than have sub guns and full size AR's.

Also, as a side note I met an El Dorado County guy who had a HK UMP .45 in FA. It was actually ridiculously heavy, but fun to shoot none the less.

Another side note, now that I remember, is I went to a school in central CA years ago where an agency had a glock 18, which they didnt issue at all but treated it like a tax payer funded toy for their guys on range day. While I may frown at this I certainly took advantage and it was indeed quite fun to shoot.

[ckim34]

we have select fire on our AR but the only time ive use full auto is at the range

[Bobby Ricigliano]

I cannot shake the mental image I have of some guy who has never worked in law enforcement and perceives zombies as his biggest threat, thinking he knows what LE personnel need or don't need to do their jobs.

[IrishJoe3]

I cannot shake the mental image I have of some guy who has never worked in law enforcement and perceives zombies as his biggest threat, thinking he knows what LE personnel need or don't need to do their jobs.

This.

Its like me telling a carpenter what he needs to do his job because I have a black&decker drill.

[Notorious]

I tell plumbers how to fix my toilet all the time because I have a can of Mr. Clean.

[Ron-Solo]

I cannot shake the mental image I have of some guy who has never worked in law enforcement and perceives zombies as his biggest threat, thinking he knows what LE personnel need or don't need to do their jobs.

Can I get an AMEN!

[coyotebait]

I tell plumbers how to fix my toilet all the time because I have a can of Mr. Clean.

Now that's just crazy talk, everybody knows Mr. Clean can't fix toilets. Pffffft.

[Notorious]

Now that's just crazy talk, everybody knows Mr. Clean can't fix toilets. Pffffft.

Maybe Mr. Clean can't fix toilets but owning a can of it gives me sufficient expertise and knowledge to tell plumbers how to do their jobs.

[yzErnie]

I cannot shake the mental image I have of some guy who has never worked in law enforcement and perceives zombies as his biggest threat, thinking he knows what LE personnel need or don't need to do their jobs.

Bravo!!!!

[biglou]

If some murderous dirt bag is hiding behind a door or soft cover wouldn't a FA sbr be useful to suppress the threat ? Of course this would be in hands of someone who trains on the range alot. Learning how to use the trigger to control FA fire. I think if you hand the average person a M16 on full auto they would just dump the entire mag with no accuracy. But a trained LEO with a good running system, would be ideal in todays world.

[Marty33]

Amen brother Ron!

[NOTARPilot]

I guess all my live fire training with said weapon on tactical and dynamic entries was a dream then.

Mine too I guess...LOL

I totally understand that and have fired FA rifles. When used in controlled bursts they can be handled. The thing is, if you're firing it in two or three round bursts to keep rounds on target there is no need for FA capabilities when you can have 3 round burst.

you have to understand that a lot of departments and tactical units don't have the funding to go out and buy brand new M4's with 3 rnd burst. They have old military surplus lowers with safe/semi/full that have maybe been outfitted with new uppers....therefore they train in trigger control and firing controlled 2-3 rnd burst in full auto. For my agency this is standard training. A course of fire for example might be a failure drill of 2-3 rnds center mass followed by 2 rnds to the head from 7 yds in full auto. 99.9% of the time they are shot in semi auto though. All of SWAT and some other specialized unit guns are full auto.....all the patrol rifles are semi only. Our MP-5's are a mix of the different triggers that are offered on the MP5A2/A3/A4. Some are S/E/F and some have the 4 position selector. We also have a couple of MP5SD's for dispatching animals and street lights.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

Can I get an AMEN!

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