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In all fairness, you must also consider that LEOs can be held accountable administratively for failing to follow agency "guidelines, rules, stipulations, etc." That is why I wrote that each LEO must make decisions that his conscience allows him to live with. I think sometimes we LEOs lose sight of the fact that we are just citizens who happen to be paid to give full attention 40 hours a week to the responsibility all citizens have. Please refer to my signature. If a cop separates himself from non-LEOs (none of his friends are non-LEOs) he often begins to develop an "us versus them" mentality. That is dangerous. Cops need to nurture non-LEO friendships in their lives to remain grounded.
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"Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen."
-- Sir Robert Peel -
My personal feelings toward this gun law or that gun law is not the issue at hand. I know of no firearms laws in California that are classified as infractions, and that was my point.
Although I often read and almost universally agree with your posts, you appear to be mixing your own points of view and distaste for certain laws with the existence of the codes themselves.
I realize an honest mistake when I see one, and exercise discretion as I see fit. I too chafe at the fact that many firearms related actions are completely legal in other states but illegal in California. However, my earlier post was intended to illustrate the false premise in the OP's first post that the scenario presented was a "small infraction"Comment
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I see what you mean. I don't think the OP meant "infraction" in the legal sense, as it would relate to a felony or misdemeanor. I think he meant the common English language definition which could simply mean "violation." In this context, I agree with the OP that unintentional gun violations could be considered minor violations, when there was no other ill intent. However, use of the word infraction in this discussion could definitely lead to confusion, so I understand your point. If we change the OP's wording from "infraction" to "violation," I think it clears up the issue."Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen."
-- Sir Robert PeelComment
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So what was the actual crime that was committed? Was it because the firearm was concealed between the seat that turned it into a crime?
I was under the impression that an unloaded firearm could be carried in plain site in a vehicle, sitting on the seat or dashboard, for instance. Is this incorrect? Granted, even if perfectly legal it's still probably an awful idea, but is that technically legal?
-~D~-WTB- hopelessly Bubba'ed cheap rifles for artful re-Bubbafication.Comment
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"Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen."
-- Sir Robert PeelComment
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Oh ok, I hadn't realized that "open transport" in this case was actually part of the now-extinct "open carry" laws. I thought it fell under general transportation rules.
Good to know. If I transport at all, it's usually in a padded zipper case with a small bike lock on the zippers, even back when I thought open transport was legal.
-DWTB- hopelessly Bubba'ed cheap rifles for artful re-Bubbafication.Comment
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I'm sorry, maybe I'm brainwashed from the area I work, but my 2 cents.....
Your buddy had a pistol jammed between the seats of his car, I'm assuming the front seats. The times I have contacted someone and saw a pistol jammed up between the front seats, they got yanked out the window, usually with my partner covering at gunpoint...and usually they went to jail for possession/loaded firearm by a felon.
Now is everyone who does that a felon? no. Are they all S bags? no. But more often then not, like 9/10 times, it's been true. So this cop who contacts your friend, maybe he has had the same experiences I have. Maybe he took your buddy out at gunpoint, not knowing if the gun was loaded or unloaded. Maybe he was so shocked that someone with a military background, who is supposed to be squared away, would show such disregard for transporting a firearm with his family present, that he felt he had to book him. Or he wanted a stat, or he was following the law as written, or or or or....
Now, in my agency, a misdemeanor is a cite and release. (If I had to arrest him, ie a Sgt shows up and demands it or the guy has a huge attitude) I'd book the gun, cite him out, DA's would drop the case about 24 hours later, he'd get the gun back later. He learns not to put a gun between his seats like he's riding in a hoopdie. That being said, if he was not from CA, or had a good attitude, no priors, just messed up...that's what spirit of law vs letter of law is for. I'd apologize for drawing down on him if I did (again, just because that's all I know), tell him to throw it in the trunk so that it doesn't get stolen if he and family stop for food later, and send him on his way.
It's still just a cite and release misdemeanor for me. And I don't like taking guns from law abiding citizens. But I really don't know how law abiding he is until he's cuffed up after and I'm running him every which way I can. And by stuffing it up front, where I've had people try to grab from and shoot me, that makes me reeeeeeally uncomfortable.
So just throw it in the trunk. Or put your hands out the window, tell me "oh god, dude I'm sorry, I realized I forgot to lock up my gun, it's unloaded and under my seat, tell me how you want me to get out of the car." I hear that and you'll be on your way after I make sure the gun is locked up, or is cool enough and I play with it for the next 15 min.Comment
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^^exactly what I was trying to say earlier^^
Well said."Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen."
-- Sir Robert PeelComment
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Update.
My friend had the case dropped and an apology letter was given to him for his command because the officer and his partner exaggerated what actually happened on their paperwork. Nothing "career impacting" happened to him. Thank you for all the responses and your time.Be patient with those that offer advice, but be careful whose advice you buy.
If you do not know your rights, then you do not have any.Comment
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Regardless of what one's "superior" or city Mayor thinks, California law gives much discretion to the individual officer on the decision to arrest or not, especially with most of the convoluted Cali gun laws on the books. Sadly, there are too many "anti gun" cops out there nowa days than in years past.
I've stopped people a few times that were "honest citizens" and they were not transporting a handgun exactly as the law describes. I used "spirit of the law" and educated the good peeps, then sent them on their way. I gave them a 5 minute "education" on the proper transporting requirement with the firearm, versus taking them to jail.
For me, it's all about the person that I contacted. If they had no criminal record/past, came up with a good story/reason as to why they were in possession of the firearm in the manner found by me, I'd let them go on their way. On the other hand, if they were on probation/parole, had warrants, were tweakers, gangsters, told me some bogus bull$*1t story or whatever.....10-15 every time.
The law allows a cop to use common sense regarding making an arrest or citing a person that probably doesn't need to be arrested or cited. Sadly, there are many cops out there that don't use common sense when it comes to good people in possession of a firearm. The "good people" probably just don't know the law and likewise, many cops today are equally confused by Cali's gun laws as well. Also, many cops out there just have this absurd "zero tolerance" policy within themselves and want to bring a gun to jail, just because it's a "gun."
Unfortunately, the old adage of "....that cop would cite his own mother," still reigns true to this day. Those types of "common sense" lacking cops are among us all.sigpic
It`s funny to me to see how angry an atheist is over a God they don`t believe in.` -Jack Hibbs
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"Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen."
-- Sir Robert PeelComment
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Why break it down into parts when you can get a small case and lock it? I think soft or hard case is fine as long as it locks. Someone will verify.
As for OP, glad it worked out for your friend.Brown 3 million. His opponent 2.1 million. Gun owners 8 million. Shouldn't his opponent have received 8 million and we have a pro gun governor??
Storm Lake Conversion Barrel. XD357SIG - $100Comment
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