California Expandable Baton Laws

[FLIGHT762]

i do not believe that i believe the law was written specifically and has since been interpreted broadly

That's correct, it's called case law.

i'm wondering if there is any blunt object can avoid that definition

Just about any blunt instrument can fit the definition due to the intended use of the object. A baseball bat, axe handle a wooden stick with a rope thong attached will fit the definition if the intended use is for "protection" will fit the definition.

Case law has also evolved with the definition of a dirk or dagger, which used to be a fixed blade knife with a sharpened double edge. Not so anymore. A Dirk or Dagger can now be almost any "fixed" instrument used for stabbing.

[BigKevLA]

So,

with all the terrible crap that has happened to my fire service brothers on the east and south east coast of our beloved United States of America in recent days, a discussion has formed around the dinner table of my fire station in regards to how to effectively protect ourselves when we respond to fire and EMS incidents.

Now, we normally do not have law enforcement responding with us to 95% of our incident. We do have LE responding on domestics, fights, suicides, and 1144's. Of course, for the exception of the 1144's, we stage in the area until cleared by LE.

I have been in the fire service for 25 years and have had the unfortunate experience of being assulted, having weapons pulled on me, and even had my ambulace shot at. Some of my younger firefighters have had some of the same sh%t occure, working in beautiful downtown Compton and Ingelwood.

With all that said, understandibly, we are not going to carry guns and boot knives, but the idea of having one of the crew members (I am a captain on an engine company) carry an expandable baton either in the small of our back or even in one of our trauma bags (although it may not be readily available is s*it goes down in a house) may be the answere to our quest for piece of mind responding to some of our more dangerous areas with fun loving s*itizins..

So, my questions to my brotheren in blue is; are there any regulations/laws preventing civil servant firefighters from carrying an expandable baton in the name of self defence or crew protection?

Thanks for any information.

I hear the Arson guys are California Peace Officers. You might want to become one.

[Sacmedic]

BigKevLA-

You are correct. Arson investigators in California are peace officers. See PC 830.37. These jobs are not plentiful, nor are the psych/background requirements any different than other peace officers in the state. The above poster may, or may not, wish to pursue that avenue. Until then he will be governed by the prohibition on carrying a collapsible baton.

[BigStiCK]

Carry the Pepper & your CCW. Keep a 3 cell Maglite in the car. Collapsible batons are mediocre.

You can crush bones with that Maglite. The baton may or may not cause bruising. I speak from experience.

[Sacmedic]

+1 to BigStick's advice.

[Ron-Solo]

Carry the Pepper & your CCW. Keep a 3 cell Maglite in the car. Collapsible batons are mediocre.

You can crush bones with that Maglite. The baton may or may not cause bruising. I speak from experience.

Yup.....

[Samuelx]

Re: expandable straight batons - if you haven't played with a Peacekeeper Products RCB, it would be worth a look. It's the new and improved version of the old Wilmoth/Winchester baton and will definitely let the other guy(s) know you mean business! For those of you in the neighborhood of campus, I've got a few different types of expandable straight batons in my desk, including 21/26/29" RCBs, you're welcome to come by and test drive them on a heavy bag in the gym.

Re: flashlights - I've got a 7 C cell maglite with Malkoff drop-in module, it's really nice.

Re: smokechaser - how about one of these:

[Pelicandriver]

Cold Steel has a few interesting walking sticks. I have the African walking stick that I actually need to use as one on occasions when the bad lumbar disc acts up. It could be used as a defensive weapon if needed, but it's far from ideal.

[pismopal]

i'm wondering if there is any blunt object can avoid that definition

Yes there is and it is very handy. A cane or walking stick is a superb form of protection and it is legal..even on commercial a/c. Mine is oak finished with tung oil. Techniques for use can be found online...free.

[Ammodog]

Anyone remember the PR-24 with built in flashlight from the early 80's. I remember the company rep coming into briefing the same week the Spyderco rep first came in. The PR-24 flashlight never got off the ground due to its obvious policy violation. Hard to convince admin that you would only use it as a flashlight.

[smokechaser13]

Hey Gang,

First and foremost, Happy New Years to all you folks.

I want to thank everyone who posted with your information. Silly for me to think that we didn't have "weapons' on the engine already....yes, we do all carry 4 D cell mags, have some real cool "master keys" and of course our brain/situational awareness.

Funny thing.....my crew and I have been taking in our mags into private homes, even at 11 in the morning for the past week....although, I did have to tell my more aggressive young firefighter to leave his axe and scabbard back on the engine when we responded to a 88 yo female with low blood pressure.....

I do live in another time zone, so fortunately, my new AR 15 and expandable batton that my wife bought me for Christmas will not have to be locked away and in hiding.....

Long live the AZ Rangers!

http://www.azrangers.us/

[lhecker51]

........if the intended use is for "protection" will fit the definition.

We cannot have one protecting themselves by injuring a perp with an illegal object. Through circumstances beyond their control, they have no other option than resort to robbery, burglary, etc. If you do as your told and yield to the perp's demand, you most likely will not be assaulted. You must remember that they do not want to hurt you. As recently recommended, women should carry a tongue depressor for defense from rape by using it to induce vomiting. This will effectively gross the rapist out. Felony blunt objects can cause serious injury to disenfranchised thugs. Remember that the streets are their workplace and they deserve a safe workplace environment.

Canes should require a permit. More disenfranchised muggers are injured by cane wielding elderly citizens each year. This has got to stop!

The intent of regulating or prohibiting certain protective weapons is for the protection of the criminal from citizens that react with irrational fear. That is why the size and strength of pepper sprays are regulated.

If all law abiding citizens had an effective means to protect their lives in public, career thugs would starve and may have to consider working for a living.

Most of these ridiculous laws that our LEO's must enforce are meant to control not just the criminal, but all citizens. Many of these laws are not for public safety, but LEO safety. I want them to be safe, but I want to ensure my family is safe as well.

-My wife was sexually assaulted while I was deployed. She applied and was denied a CCW. I will neither confirm nor deny that she carries anyway.
-My sister-in-law was carjacked in SB four years ago and severely beaten resulting in paralysis and eventual death last year due to complications. Result? Two thugs convicted and only given four years. They are now out while my brother is without his spouse until they meet again in the next life. Thank you SB DA! My sister is a Deputy DA and is disgusted with your performance given the facts of the case.

Criminals have nothing to lose in this state as they choose to have nothing that can be forfeited (property). Getting sent to prison is just another welcome home event for many of them. When they want something, they just take it. Defending yourself from a criminal can be financially devastating if you use the wrong ammo, the perp turns as you shoot, etc..

As a retired combat vet with over 20 years, I pray for our LEO's and the tough thankless job they have to do. It's just too bad you can't be everywhere you are needed at all times.

[Armed24-7]

If you expect logic associated with California law, it will only make your head hurt.

LOL Ron.....thanks for my new signature!

[Dorsai58]

I have a question about the cane. I carry a an Irish walking stick, big stout blackthorn. Sometimes my knee acts up, I hurt it in the Navy. If I beat some thug who attacks me with that stick, I had always thought that would be legal. Now with seeing this thread, could I be charged with carrying an illegal weapon? Thanks for all you do LE types.

[P5Ret]

I have a question about the cane. I carry a an Irish walking stick, big stout blackthorn. Sometimes my knee acts up, I hurt it in the Navy. If I beat some thug who attacks me with that stick, I had always thought that would be legal. Now with seeing this thread, could I be charged with carrying an illegal weapon? Thanks for all you do LE types.

Carrying an illegal weapon, probably not. However keep in mind that if you beat the holy hell out of someone who is unarmed, you may end up on the wrong end of a assault with a deadly weapon charge. Just like using a firearm to protect yourself you are going to need to show that the attacker posed a grave threat to life or great bodily harm, since the tool you used has a potential to be lethal.