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Interesting LEOSA/HR218 case decision

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  • CalCop
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 573

    Interesting LEOSA/HR218 case decision

    In the case of People v. Drew Peterson, Case No. 08 CF 1169 (Oct. 1, 2010), by Judge Richard Schoenstedt of the 12th Judicial Circuit of the State of Illinois. Question: Whether or not the defendant, a police officer, could be charged with felony unlawful use of a weapon given the implications of the Federal LEOSA legislation passed into law in 2004. Will County prosecutors in May of 2008 had charged Mr. Peterson with felony unlawful use of a weapon, contending he had illegally modified the rifle (Colt Sporter) by shortening the barrel. Judge Schoenstedt said LEOSA precluded charging the defendant with the felony weapons charge. In his opinion, the judge wrote that:

    “The defense argues simply that "LEOSA" applies to any firearm not specifically excluded (by LEOSA) whether or not that firearm is illegal by State law. The State's position is that "LEOSA" only applies to firearms that are legal by state law. The State argued that factors including concealed carry; possession; privately owned vs. department issued; and illegal firearms are not covered by "LEOSA" and are important considerations in their favor…[The judge found that] the intent of LEOSA is to allow qualified law enforcement officers to carry concealed firearms, so that if the need arises, such an officer may unconceal; show; and ultimately use his weapon. LEOSA does not provide definitions as to the issue of carry or concealment, including whether it is permissible to have the weapon in a case, holster, waistband, and so forth. Similarly, LEOSA does not indicate that the size of the weapon is a factor in determining whether it can be concealed and carried. In fact, machine guns are typically larger than handguns and the machine gun is the only true firearm excepted from LEOSA…Under LEOSA, there is no distinction found by this Court that would treat a qualified law enforcement officer differently whether he possessed a firearm while on duty or off duty. The protection provided by LEOSA is simply not reduced or eliminated because an otherwise qualified officer fails to obtain permission from his department to use the weapon; or to arrange to have that weapon issued by his department…The State is essentially requesting this Court to assume or infer that the drafters intended to provide immunity only for State sanctioned weapons. In fact, it is possible to assume or infer the opposite in part because the evidence here shows that under different circumstances the officers of the Bolingbrook Police Department would have been able to possess and conceal carry this very weapon…Regardless, at trial it is the State's burden to prove each element of the offense charged. By these findings, it would be impossible for the State to do so. The defense's renewed motion to dismiss is granted.” http://www.policelawblog.com/blog/20...ns-charge.html
    "Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen."
    -- Sir Robert Peel
  • #2
    Ron-Solo
    In Memoriam
    • Jan 2009
    • 8581

    This was a state court decision and is not binding anywhere.

    Drew Peterson is not someone we want to use as a rallying point.
    LASD Retired
    1978-2011

    NRA Life Member
    CRPA Life Member
    NRA Rifle Instructor
    NRA Shotgun Instructor
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    • #3
      Tripper
      Calguns Addict
      • Jan 2011
      • 7628

      still, thats something, coming from IL
      and LEOSA cases are quite rare
      unless anyone has references to any
      WTB NAA Belt Buckle
      MILITARY STRETCHER/RADIATION DETECTION KIT

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      • #4
        tyrist
        Veteran Member
        • Jun 2007
        • 4564

        The biggest reason they left the weapons wide open was because of magazine capacity limits and hollow point ammunition bans in several states.

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        • #5
          Notorious
          Veteran Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 4695

          Originally posted by tyrist
          The biggest reason they left the weapons wide open was because of magazine capacity limits and hollow point ammunition bans in several states.
          Which was addressed by the second LEOSA, as amended 2010.
          I like guns

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          • #6
            eltee
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2008
            • 897

            Anybody have any stories, cases, etc. on how "Qualified Law Enforcement Officers" (per LEOSA / 18USC926 A/B, et seq) who retired or honorably left a DISBANDED agency handled the ID issuance requirement? I'm a part time LE labor rep and there are honorably retired officers or officers who just left (under honorable circumstances) who are now seeking to exercise LEOSA rights but their former agency is gone. In one case, the former chief left law enforcement when his agency was acquired, but he was not given an LEOSA compliant ID and the new agency will not issue him one.

            +1 that Drew Peterson is not a posterboy cop / ex-cop but his decision may help others.

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            • #7
              Notorious
              Veteran Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 4695

              How about figuring out a system for cops who have served their ten years minimum and left LE for whatever reasons, non retirement related, and their agency still exists? LEOSA provides for separatees with ten years to qualify as well but nobody I know has ever gotten an ID that says "SEPARATED" instead of "RETIRED".
              I like guns

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              • #8
                eltee
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2008
                • 897

                Yes. I counseled a former arson investigator from a small Southern California jurisdiction. He left under honorable conditions. He was bounced back and forth between his employing FD and the PD that trained him in arrest, firearms, etc. and authorized him to exercise LE authority. He was unable to get a resolution.

                There are alot of issues nationwide like this and it is hoped that an amended LEOSA will accomodate situations like this. From the former officers I've represented, their respective former employing agencies simply do not want to issue an "ex" member any sort of ID and /or facilitate their exercising their LEOSA rights.

                In some cases, cops are simply carrying their last, expired ID and qualifying locally. Retirees do the same, and keep a pension check stub in their wallet.

                No clear, solid resolution I know of yet.
                Last edited by eltee; 05-02-2012, 11:48 AM.

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                • #9
                  fullrearview
                  Calguns Addict
                  • Jan 2008
                  • 9371

                  Wow. Some serious issues here that need to be addressed.
                  "Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."~M.Twain~

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    CalCop
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 573

                    The separated individual must have one of the following:
                    (a) a valid photograph identification card issued by their government employer, or if retired,
                    (b) a valid photograph identification card issued by the government employer from which they separated which states that the person is qualified to carry and
                    has qualified within the last 12 months,
                    or,
                    (c) a valid photograph identification card issued by the government employer from which they separated and either a state certification or firearms instructor certification which states that the person is qualified to carry and has qualified within the last 12 months.

                    In cases where the agency is now defunct, the officer can petition the governing body....i.e. if a state agency closed, the separated officer can go to the state, or if a City PD dissolved, the officer can go to the city manager and try to get the ID issued. This is the only area of LEOSA that seems not to have any teeth. Retired cops have tried to force their former agencies to issue IDs, and judges have said the agencies don't have to.
                    "Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen."
                    -- Sir Robert Peel

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Tripper
                      Calguns Addict
                      • Jan 2011
                      • 7628

                      the ID expiring in 12 months seems to be the most common mistake among those thinking they have a valid LEOSA credential
                      WTB NAA Belt Buckle
                      MILITARY STRETCHER/RADIATION DETECTION KIT

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                      • #12
                        Notorious
                        Veteran Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 4695

                        Originally posted by CalCop
                        The separated individual must have one of the following:
                        (a) a valid photograph identification card issued by their government employer, or if retired,
                        (b) a valid photograph identification card issued by the government employer from which they separated which states that the person is qualified to carry and
                        has qualified within the last 12 months,
                        or,
                        (c) a valid photograph identification card issued by the government employer from which they separated and either a state certification or firearms instructor certification which states that the person is qualified to carry and has qualified within the last 12 months.

                        In cases where the agency is now defunct, the officer can petition the governing body....i.e. if a state agency closed, the separated officer can go to the state, or if a City PD dissolved, the officer can go to the city manager and try to get the ID issued. This is the only area of LEOSA that seems not to have any teeth. Retired cops have tried to force their former agencies to issue IDs, and judges have said the agencies don't have to.
                        Maybe a class action against the state mandating some sort of central body who issues or controls this area with all the retirees and separatees need to take place to force the issue to say that otherwise federal law which is unenforceable at the whims of the state makes it moot?
                        I like guns

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          hitman13
                          Veteran Member
                          • Sep 2007
                          • 3793

                          Going back full circle: out of state LEOs can bring in SBRs correct? Because I do, and was stopped by CHP on I-10, he told me that he wasn't sure but frankly didn't care.....

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                          • #14
                            BigDogatPlay
                            Calguns Addict
                            • Jun 2007
                            • 7362

                            Originally posted by hitman13
                            Going back full circle: out of state LEOs can bring in SBRs correct? Because I do, and was stopped by CHP on I-10, he told me that he wasn't sure but frankly didn't care.....
                            My thinking is that if the SBR is the department's then it's not an issue. Privately owned would be, I think, a different story as there is no peace officer exemption for a privately owned SBR in California. I could just as well be wrong, but that's just how I see it.

                            But, like the CHP guy who stopped you, I likely wouldn't care unless you were doing something stupid with the SBR as an instrumentality.
                            -- Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun

                            Not a lawyer, just a former LEO proud to have served.

                            Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. -- James Madison

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                            • #15
                              Ron-Solo
                              In Memoriam
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 8581

                              Originally posted by hitman13
                              Going back full circle: out of state LEOs can bring in SBRs correct? Because I do, and was stopped by CHP on I-10, he told me that he wasn't sure but frankly didn't care.....
                              I'm not 100% positive, but I think you run into issues with ATF if you cross a state line with NFA firearms unless you file certain paperwork with them.

                              I'm retired, so I wouldn't give you any grief over one.
                              LASD Retired
                              1978-2011

                              NRA Life Member
                              CRPA Life Member
                              NRA Rifle Instructor
                              NRA Shotgun Instructor
                              NRA Range Safety Officer
                              DOJ Certified Instructor

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