Traffic stop, loaded handgun in plain view

[SWalt]

20+ years ago I heard a few times that some LEO's wouldn't do anything if they pulled you over and you announced you had a loaded firearm within reach and in plain view. I don't know if it was true then and just the way it was in a different time and a different CA, so my question is:

What would your response be today given....

You pull over someone for what ever reason, tail light out, minor infraction, speeding etc. The person you pull over is just the average joe, 35+, working adult, no priors, no warrants, just clean. Window rolled down, hands on wheel, not acting nervous, non threatening and when you get up to the window they announce they have a loaded weapon within reach/plain view. No LTC, no CCW. No specific reason for having a loaded weapon other than self defense.

Arrest? Citation? Strictly follow policy and law? Read the riot act, unload it, throw it in the trunk then let go? Give a fist bump as a fellow 2A supporter? What would you do? What do you think or heard other LEO's would do?

[SWalt]

I should add.......they guy isn't being an A hole, spouting off that its my right, but being reasonable and rational.

[JS89]

Is he aware of state law or is he pleading ignorance?

[SWalt]

Is he aware of state law or is he pleading ignorance?

aware.......being up front and honest, no guff

[Lives_In_Fresno]

Can I speculate? You said the guy is aware of the law, and admits breaking it? At least 50% chance he goes to jail. At a minimum, the gun is confiscated. (I'm not a LEO)

[brokntrigr]

Most of the people I pull over tell me from the get go he has a gun but in the trunk and unloaded. If he has a CCW or is off duty and has a gun, a records check will be conducted and off you go if you have a clean record, no warrants, and you pass the attitude check. I wouldn't mind another cop pull me over and run my record or what. It's a courtesy from one cop to another, I know you're doing your job. The cop doesn't know who I am and even if I say I'm a cop, he or she shouldn't take my word for it, I can only put myself in his/her shoes. I have never met a responsible owner leave his gun in the front seat, in plain view. Everyone has cell phone and can easily call 911 and tell the dispatcher the driver has a gun (its happened a lot) - a felony stop shall occur and guaranteed the face will be on the pavement. Case in point, someone called 911, and the reportee thought she saw a rifle. We located the vehicle, did a felony stop and searched the vehicle. It turned out it was a tripod for the guys video camera.

Worst case scenario, what happens if you need to jump out of your car in a heartbeat and heaven forbid you leave your door open, car running and someone sees your gun IN plain view on the front seat? If I see a gun on the front seat, trust me my gun will be coming out of my holster, and, at the very least low ready. I don't know who the F you are and what your record is. By that time, you better have your hands on the wheel and where I can see them and start explaining. I shall go home with the same number of holes I came to work with. I was always taught, concealed is concealed. Responsible owners know that you only present your gun at a range, when you clean it at home or when you are going to shoot someone in self defense. If you think you are not ready to pull it out from your holster in a sitting position, may I suggest you practice that draw.

[SWalt]

I'm just looking to see if its always "just follow policy and the law" strictly, hook em and book em, tell it to the judge or do some make judgment calls. Discretion. The guy isn't in a gang out to revenge his homie, hes not pissed off at the world, wife, job. Not giving lip or "why did you pull me over" crap. I guess I could give him/her a reason to have a loaded gun in his vehicle. Lives in a gang infested area. Drives late at night on the freeway or street on his/her way home from work. Driving long distance over unfamiliar territory. Theres been a rash of home invasions in his neighborhood and doesn't want to pull up to someone forcing him inside. All hypothetical.

[SWalt]

....If I see a gun on the front seat, trust me my gun will be coming out of my holster, and, at the very least low ready. I don't know who the F you are and what your record is. By that time, you better have your hands on the wheel and where I can see them and start explaining. I shall go home with the same number of holes I came to work with. I was always taught, concealed is concealed. Responsible owners know that you only present your gun at a range, when you clean it at home or when you are going to shoot someone in self defense. If you think you are not ready to pull it out from your holster in a sitting position, may I suggest you practice that draw.

Ok, the original scenario was the guy you pulled over has already rolled down his window with both hands on the wheel and tells you immediately, from the get go, "I have a loaded gun". Like I said also, "20+ years ago I heard..." Before crack houses, rampant drive bys and 10,000s of gang members. I guess I could of added more time and say 30+ yrs. I can fully understand officer safety comes first and you don't know who the person is or their intent. This is all hypothetical. Personally, when I travel any where with a firearm I go by what the law says. Locked case for a hand gun and ammo in a completely different compartment. Gun safety is paramount with me and been taught since I was 6, many moons ago.

So, you would treat it as a felony stop, draw your weapon, order them to keep their hands in view, ask them out of the vehicle slowly, assume to position, cuff them, secure the weapon, then? Immediate arrest, no if, and's or buts, confiscation, tell it to the judge? 100% all of the time?

[brokntrigr]

Ok, the original scenario was the guy you pulled over has already rolled down his window with both hands on the wheel and tells you immediately, from the get go, "I have a loaded gun". Like I said also, "20+ years ago I heard..." Before crack houses, rampant drive bys and 10,000s of gang members. I guess I couldn't added more time and say 30+ yrs. I can fully understand officer safety comes first and you don't know who the person is or their intent. This is all hypothetical. Personally, when I travel any where with a firearm I go by what the law says. Locked case for a hand gun and ammo in a completely different compartment. Gun safety is paramount with me and been taught since I was 6, many moons ago.

So, you would treat it as a felony stop, draw your weapon, order them to keep their hands in view, ask them out of the vehicle slowly, assume to position, cuff them, secure the weapon, then? Immediate arrest, no if, and's or buts, confiscation, tell it to the judge? 100% all of the time?

SWalt, what would you do if you pulled someone over and see a loaded gun on the front seat? Would you trust him and start a conversation? Hey, nice gun, what kind is it? Wanna check mine out? Maybe we can go get a donut around the corner and talk ammo? Yes I would treat it as a felony stop. No cop will place a gun in plain view or someone who knows how to handle guns for that matter. One who places a gun in plain view is a dumb *****, a show off and just wants to attract attention. There's no such thing as a 100% all the time. If there is cause for an arrest, heck yeah. If he's just an idiot showing off, there will be educating involved telling him how much of an idiot he is.

[masameet]

Didn't Jose Canseco plead no contest for having a loaded handgun in plain view in his car?

Pretty sure this event happened 20-something years ago.

[edgerly779]

SWALT ammo in same locked case with registered handgun ok per cadoj. Pistol cannot be loaded.

[CDC54]

Stupid question maybe but in the same category. There's been a few times when on the way to the range have a normal rifle soft case no lock and swing into Wally World to grab a bulk ammo pack. After purchased took it out to the truck and through the bag behind my drivers seat on the floor.

Pretty sure not technically legal right ?

[SWalt]

SWALT ammo in same locked case with registered handgun ok per cadoj. Pistol cannot be loaded.

If theres is one thing about computers, its so easy to misunderstand. Not many of us can write in such a way that we paint a perfect image in the others mind, plus typos don't help either.

I understand that ammo close to a firearm isn't considered loaded since its not attached in a manner thats its ready to fire. Technically, you can have a loaded magazine in the same locked case as long as it isn't in the magazine well or there isn't a round in the chamber. I don't travel like that. I try to go above and beyond the requirement and try not to give any question of my intent if I'm pulled over. I keep the firearms in the cab of my truck (handgun, in a locked case, non concealable firearm in a soft or locked case)and ammo in the covered, locked bed of my truck. A completely separate compartment. To load...well....just imagine all the steps you have to take! Of course that puts you at an immense disadvantage if you are, say, sitting in traffic in Hollywood and some bozo decides he's gonna start shooting up traffic. Of course, THAT will never happen..

[Notorious]

I would have to go by the letter of the law if for no other reason other than the liability factor of not going by the law. The average Joe who is fine right now during the stop can very well go into a stop n rob and shoot up the place... or shoot at a car in a road rage incident. Who knows. I don't know the guy and some felons out there are mighty fine actors. When he gets arrested later, records will show you pulled him over earlier and I let him go on his way.

At the minimum, you will get asked if you knew anything or saw anything strange during that contact. I am not going to lie about it and I will have to say I saw his gun and let him go... so rather than be forced into that situation, I do what I have to do, whether or not I agree with the whole scenario.

That's the crappy part of losing your discretion in the job because people don't lend themselves to be trusted... and I know about your old days because cops back then really are more laid back because they could be without every IAD happy climber or sue happy citizen or media sensation whore getting all over him for every little thing. Not anymore in this day and age. We reap what we sow.

[erik_26]

Not a LEO, but maybe the question being ask is better phrased as,

How often do you use officer discretion when conducting a stop?

I.E. make a stop, guy has lock on pistol in gun case, but no lock on gun case. Technically illegal, but as an officer do you take the opportunity to educate and send on their way or bag and tag? Obviously the person intentions were good, just wrong execution.

Kind of like when LEOs feel that a warning for speeding (or whatever) is just as effective as issuing a citation. But with higher stakes.

On the other hand.....

How a LEO on here might perceive the question is that someone is trying to get a LEO to say it is ok to break the law. And that is just not going to happen. I don't think any of our Calgun LEOs would ever say (even though they might look the other way once in a great while under special circumstances) that they would.