Are g-bangers getting more prevalent?

[POLICESTATE]

I work south Sac. Yes. Gangs are growing quickly.
A lot of reasons I think. A lot of it has been the general social acceptance of the "thug life".

I agree with this. Back when the bangers started doing drive bys (talking late 80's here) all the parents then didn't like bangers, recognized it as a short-lived lifestyle for those that participated and put the rest of the community at serious risk.

Now, over 20 years later today's parents in those areas think it's cool to be a gangster. Hell a bunch of them ARE gangsters.

So you can think about just how bad their kids are and since there are so many...

[J_B]

I realize with the budget cuts, gang enforcement divisions have many fewer officers to respond to gang related incidents. And because I'm always concealed carrying, I get the looks from these individuals and the "silent treatment" when I walk by. Must be the black windbreaker and black slacks and military green ball cap.

Well, we just put about 10 or more gang enforcement deputies out and from what I've seen while I'm out patrolling is they are putting in hard work.

[POLICESTATE]

Awesome avatar.

So basically what I'm interpreting from what you are saying is that there are two groups in the gangsta culture.

Hardcore Gangsters
Wanna-be Gangsters

Then a bunch of petty thugs incorrectly classified as gangsters. So not a 3rd group.

Also wonder how many LEOs not working hardcore gang task force assignments would take the word of some dip**** saying he's a gangster and classifying him as one whether he really is or not?

Good points on associates vs real gang members. I'm sure many of the depts where gang activity is light or has not been around long don't see any distinction yet, or may see the associates as one step away from a real gang member so "close enough for government work"

i'm a criminologist with a specialization in race/ethnicity and gang research so i think i can share what academia thinks about this.

the FBI stats are seen as the product of an unreliable sampling methodology. in human words that means the definition of who is and isn't a gang member varies by locality and agency. so if in one reporting agency includes "associates" in their reported data, and another only includes documented gang members, then you're comparing apples to oranges. another problem is that some unknown segment of the population sampled is not included in the sample. that unknown unsampled population could throw the results entirely off. these sampling problems are the bane of statistical data in the social sciences. stats can give us a "ballpark" view of what is going on, but we cant fall into the trap of assuming them to be an accurate reflection of what is occuring in the streets.

data from ethnographic work i've seen presented and anecdotal conversations with LEO's from around the country (mostly gang detail cops) i've had at conferences in the past couple years, leads me to believe there are two trends:

1. crime levels have seen a dramatic decline in the past decade, despite the corresponding decline in the economy and increase in wealth disparity. this has confounded academics and liberals in general who thought they had it figured out that crime and economic disparity were an unfallible correlation. what i have found is that this is largely driven by lower levels of crime in big cities. (of course there are a couple exceptions, chicago comes to mind of course) it has been suggested by academics and LEO's that urban gangs are getting more sophisticated and are committing less of the kind of street crime that gets reported as crime data to the FBI UCR, and more of the organized criminal activity that does not generate so much raw data as street level crime.

at the same time, there is the inter-generational rejection thesis that suggests that a larger proportion of the available pool of young people that gang members are drawn from in urban areas are rejecting the violence of previous generations and instead choosing subcultural alternatives to gang activity, such as graffiti tagging or so-called "street art", various music based subcultures and the ubiquitous "hipster" subculture.

2. the second trend, is that across the board, LEO's i've talked to, particularly gang detail officers, at conventions and what not, report that the prevalence of gang activity and membership is up in rural and suburban areas. particularly in the midwest and parts of the south. in some cases i find that these officers are poorly trained to accurately identify and define gang membership.

but moreover i feel like what is being reflected in their reports is a spreading of the popularity of gang culture in rural and suburban areas. i can only speculate as to what the source of this recent surge in popularity is. contemporary popular music is mostly the clubby bling bling music and not focused on the gangster rap that was popular in the 90's, so that's not the answer. perhaps internal migration is influencing the trend, with bonified gang members from urban areas moving to rural and suburban areas and influencing youngsters there. that might be an explanation. another could be that rural and suburban youngsters are romanticizing urban subcultures like gang banging they see on the internet, and generate their own gang subcultures out of material they get off the internet and what not.

what do you LEO's think about these analyses? unlike most of my academic colleagues, i am very much interested in the perspectives of people who are actual law enforcement practitioners. you're the ones who have the most contact with this population, while most academics sit in their armchairs blind to the outside world.

hope i was able to add a lil food for thought and i appreciate you all sharing your opinions and observations.

[Notorious]

Long and short of it... back when I was going through the academy, the gang officer who taught the gang portion of the class gave us the statistic that in Southern California alone, we are outnumbered by a ratio of 8:1, gang members to officers.

Gangs also have a pretty damn low standard of entry, no testing involved, no background checks, and hardly ever turn recruits down, while we have very rigorous standards and requirements... then you look at what is offered to the prospective member of a gang versus what is offered to a police officer.

The gangbanger gets immediate girls, parties, alcohol, drugs, guns, and maybe money depending on what he does. We get a decent paycheck for hard work and one gun. The parties, alcohol, drugs and girls are things that actually are detrimental to our careers. So who do you think will grow faster given the intervening years?

Society's love and glamorization of gangsters and thugs is nothing new. Dillinger and other mobsters enjoyed the same kind of love back in the day, but people didn't necessarily want to be them, just thought they were some larger than life icon. Nowadays, everyone can dress like Snoop Dogg and 50 Cent. Everyone can mess up the English language like a rapper. Everyone can wear tons of fake gold... and it's all accepted and even embraced.

Sad state of affairs indeed.

[kimber_ss]

^Good points! Well maybe the department could take you guys to hooters and pay for the bar. All in a days good work. LOL

[Eirerogue]

I remember attending a Chiefs of Police Conference in the early 80s, when the then Chief Police of Phoenix made an impassioned and data driven plea for more budget dollars going to Gang Intelligence and Enforcement. He explained the spread of gangs from the LA area throughout the SW and it was going to move East quickly.

The general reaction amongst his peers was one of indifference and disbelief. Couldn't happen in X city, as they HAD no gangs. Short sighted views and lack of desire/funding by City pols has left us with a very tough road ahead.

[KaTooM]

Lets get some politians to outlaw gangs and drugs.

Then we can decrare war on them...that willl work.

[HeathenRifleman]

Lets get some politians to outlaw gangs and drugs.

Then we can decrare war on them...that willl work.

lol

[Notorious]

The politician's mentality toward gangs is just amazing. Ignore the problem and maybe we won't have any. Yeah... right.

I got a talking to before when I was being honest to some citizens who were inquiring about living in one of our more gang infested areas... and the higher ups got all upset because they didn't want to have our community painted in a "bad" light.

[Seesm]

Ugh hate gangs and tagging...

[Samuelx]

Lets get some politians to outlaw gangs and drugs.

Then we can decrare war on them...that willl work.

lolol but first let's form a task force and think tank. then let's do an in depth study on whether the problem really exists. then, IF there IS a problem, we'll do another study on just how big the problem is. then we'll have to pull in some additional outside experts and come up with a plan on how to deal with the problem. then we'll put it in writing and see if we can pass it through both houses...

[Notorious]

lolol but first let's form a task force and think tank. then let's do an in depth study on whether the problem really exists. then, IF there IS a problem, we'll do another study on just how big the problem is. then we'll have to pull in some additional outside experts and come up with a plan on how to deal with the problem. then we'll put it in writing and see if we can pass it through both houses...

With any luck, we might be able to declare war on gangs within 10-15 years and then have the feds kick in money for a big dog and pony show like they did with the war on drugs which did nothing but create more druggies and rich cartels.

[Tacit Blue]

Awesome avatar.

So basically what I'm interpreting from what you are saying is that there are two groups in the gangsta culture.

Hardcore Gangsters
Wanna-be Gangsters

Then a bunch of petty thugs incorrectly classified as gangsters. So not a 3rd group.

Also wonder how many LEOs not working hardcore gang task force assignments would take the word of some dip**** saying he's a gangster and classifying him as one whether he really is or not?

Good points on associates vs real gang members. I'm sure many of the depts where gang activity is light or has not been around long don't see any distinction yet, or may see the associates as one step away from a real gang member so "close enough for government work"

My interpretation of the word " Gangster" is different than it applies to now.

When the word gangster comes to mind, I think of guys like Pesci , or De niro. Who dress nicely, have flashy cars and style. They give you a chance to repay your debts, and if you don't they'll send their ' associates' down to take care of the issue.

When I see 50 cent, or snoop dog I think of the word " Thug". I think both words have confused recently... They'll kill you over the stupidest thing possible, less 500$ etc.

[Notorious]

True... there is a difference between gangster and gangbanger.

[Samuelx]

Is he a friend of Yours or a friend of Ours?