Auto Knifes in CA?

[ke6guj]

When you can show me where it says a dealer cannot sell an auto knife then I will believe your smart response.

here you go.



21510. Every person who does any of the following with a
switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is
guilty of a misdemeanor:

(c) Sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or
gives the knife to any other person.

Well... there are stores that sell it retail but like I said, only to LE or .mil but they sure don't hide the fact either.

But they are doing it in violation of the law. There is no exemption for LE/.mil sales of switchblades. they only reason they don't hide the fact that they illegally sell switchblades is because they are relying on the "brass pass by proxy", that the people profiting by them selling would be the same people that would arrest them.

This is like the guy that walks into a gun store and tells you that AR's are illegal...... Its well known that dealers are allowed to sell auto knives (not just LEO/MIL) its just a taboo subject so people will "automatically" (no pun) assume that you can't.

well known by whom? Where is the exemption in this law that allows dealers to sell switchblades to anyone?

21510. Every person who does any of the following with a
switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is
guilty of a misdemeanor:

(c) Sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or
gives the knife to any other person.

[keenkeen]

When you can show me where it says a dealer cannot sell an auto knife then I will believe your smart response.

It's already been cited in this thread like 4 times, here you go again:

21510. Every person who does any of the following with a
switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is
guilty of a misdemeanor:
(a) Possesses the knife in the passenger's or driver's area of any
motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public.
(b) Carries the knife upon the person.
(c) Sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or
gives the knife to any other person.

Can you point out the part about "dealers" being exempt?

[keenkeen]

This is like the guy that walks into a gun store and tells you that AR's are illegal...... Its well known that dealers are allowed to sell auto knives (not just LEO/MIL) its just a taboo subject so people will "automatically" (no pun) assume that you can't.

It's well known that people speed and drive drunk...that doesn't mean they are "allowed to"...

[sk1]

I work with a company that makes knives and has been doing so for 25+ years, and when I brought this topic up the answer I got was a big YES A DEALER CAN SELL AUTO KNIVES. Now if this untrue I believe the whole operation would have been shut down some time ago. Can a private party sell to a private party.... NO. Now if any of you have prosecuted dealers and manufacturers on this topic please speak up! I would love to hear what you have to say.

[mej16489]

I work with a company that makes knives and has been doing so for 25+ years, and when I brought this topic up the answer I got was a big YES A DEALER CAN SELL AUTO KNIVES. Now if this untrue I believe the whole operation would have been shut down some time ago. Can a private party sell to a private party.... NO. Now if any of you have prosecuted dealers and manufacturers on this topic please speak up! I would love to hear what you have to say.

Multiple posts in this thread have posted the CA Penal Code as evidence that it is illegal to Sell, offers for sale, expose for sale, loan, transfer, or give an Auto Knife (2"+ in length)

Where is your evidence that this Penal Code doesn't apply to a dealer. Is it because the prohibition is specified to 'a person'?

The code on Autos is essentially the same as for 'large capacity magazines'

32310. Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section
32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section
17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, commencing January 1, 2000, any
person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured,
imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for
sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine is
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or
in the state prison.


32310 has lots of exemptions; for example Mil/LEO. It even uses 'person' language...everyone knows it applies to stores too.

21510 has no such exemptions


There are a million things out there which are illegal that people do every day and noone gives it a second thought. That doesn't make it not illegal.

[Notorious]

But they are doing it in violation of the law. There is no exemption for LE/.mil sales of switchblades. they only reason they don't hide the fact that they illegally sell switchblades is because they are relying on the "brass pass by proxy", that the people profiting by them selling would be the same people that would arrest them.

Never stopped the CA DOJ or any other agency from going after people who are doing similar things. Heck, OLL's were legal and look what DOJ did!

Why would DOJ overlook something like this? No mass stabbings with switchblades yet to make sensational headlines?

[ke6guj]

Why would DOJ overlook something like this? No mass stabbings with switchblades yet to make sensational headlines?

I'm not sure why DOJ is overlooking this.

I even talked to a CA manufacturer about this a year ago and he agreed that there was not exemption for him to sell to LEO/.mil but that nobody had gotten arrested for it yet. That the federal switchblade law made the laws murky, and that he would try to use the federal swichblade law as a defence, even though it only dealt with interstate sales, not intrastate sales.

As for why the local LEA/LEO is overlooking it? Probably because the dealer is only selling to them, and not to the general public, so why bust their own dealer?

[Notorious]

I get the part about the locals looking the other way, believe me. But for every cool line officer that don't care, there is that one admin pog or anal retentive idiot cop that will point it out as illegal activity and either ban it in his own department or raise enough of a stink to do something about it.

Botach in Crenshaw sells it out of their store and you know LAPD can be pretty tough on enforcing stuff like this because they have their shares of politicians in their ranks who will ticket their own grandma delivering Christmas gifts to their own children to get ahead.

[ke6guj]

I don't know what to tell you other than point to the codified PC. The fact that people are doing it doesn't make it legal. Just remember that, unless you are exempt from the law (and I'd hope that an LEO would know exactly why he would be exempt from a law that lists no LEO exemption)carrying while on duty is a misdemeanor, and more importantly, carrying a 2+" switchblade concealed while off duty is a felony.

[Notorious]

Where is the difference from on or off duty carry?

[ke6guj]

Where is the difference from on or off duty carry?

AFAIK, this exemption only applies when you are on-duty,

17730. The provisions listed in Section 16590 do not apply to any
of the following:

(b) The possession of any weapon, device, or ammunition, other
than a short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, by any peace
officer of any federal, state, county, city and county, or city
agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, when the
officer is on duty and the use is authorized by the agency and is
within the course and scope of the officer's duties.


so, not only do you have to be on duty to carry it concealed, but the use of it has to be authorized by the agency.

I am not aware of any off-duty exemptions for 16590.

[Notorious]

But you said on duty is a misdemeanor... so you are exempted from carrying as a felony but you are still committing a misdemeanor? Then on top of that, you are supposed to be asking specific permission to carry an auto knife?

Knives are de rigeur for uniformed carry... so we have to specify autos now.

[ke6guj]

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear in my earlier post. I see that I mentioned the concealed carry of a 2+" switchblade off-duty, but forgot to explain that was a felony since it was a "concealed dirk or dagger".

So, to re-iterate, 653k/21510 says that it is a misdemeanor to carry a 2+" switchblade on your person at any time, including LEOs on or off duty. There are no codified exemptions to 21510 that say that LEOs are exempt.

Secondly, case law says that a 2+" switchblade carried concealed can be consdiered a concealed dirk or dagger, which would be a violation of 12020/16590 and is a felony. However, there is a on-duty LEO exemption to 16590, which I listed above, 17730(b) which states that the exemption applies "when the officer is on duty and the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of the officer's duties." If the LEO is off-duty, then I don't see how they have an exemption to 16590 if they are carrying a concealed 2+" switchblade (dirk or dagger).


people v. plumlee

OPINION

A switchblade knife as defined in Penal Code section 653k*fn1 can also be a dirk or dagger concealed on the person as defined in section 12020, even if it is concealed in its closed position. The superior court erred when, taking the contrary view, it refused to hold defendant Gary Plumlee to answer to a charge of violating section 12020 and later denied the People's motion to reinstate the charge. The record reveals rational grounds for holding Plumlee to answer, so the charge must be reinstated.

http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfr...8091.CA.htm/qx

[Notorious]

So either way, it's a misdemeanor, on or off duty even if authorized since there is no exemption, but there is an exemption to the felony statute if on duty and authorized.

[ke6guj]

So either way, it's a misdemeanor, on or off duty even if authorized since there is no exemption, but there is an exemption to the felony statute if on duty and authorized.

yup.