Shotgun ammo question

[explorerdude]

Just wondering whats the best ammo to load into a shotgun for home defense? Currently have 00buck. Also, would bean bags be legal to purchase in CA? Any other recommendations with stopping power but low risk of stray rounds?

[Steelplate45]

I have 6 rounds in my 870 Rem

They alternate 000, slug, 000, slug, and so on.

Triple 0 is a better choice than Double 0. Consists of 8 pellets @ 36 caliber (9mm).

[Cummins_Powered]

If i needed to use my shotgun in self defense, there is no way in hell i would want it loaded with beanbags. 00 low recoil rounds are loaded up in mine now. The longest shot i could make in my house is about 20 ft. at that distance the pattern is still going to be pretty tight, and i dont plan on missing.

[Ron-Solo]

#4 Buck (not #4 shot) is commonly used in LE applications. Good knock down power and you get 27 pellets as opposed to 9 or 12 with 00 Buck.

To use bean bags, or "less lethal" you need to be able to justify using deadly force. In a home defense situation, the time for less lethal options is gone. Bean bags have their place, and they are always backed up by another officer prepared to use deadly force if the less lethal method is not effective.

[biochembruin]

DO NOT concern yourself with bean bag rounds. They are not intended for a lethal force situation, and are not appropriate for home defense.

At most ranges inside a home, the spread of 00 buck will not be much different than hitting someone with a slug round. However, there will be over-penetration concerns with the slug round at those short distances. Stick with 00 buck and you will be fine.

More than worrying about what rounds to put in your shotgun, invest in some legal training (books, classes, etc) so you are confident you know when to shoot.

[monk]

How big is the difference between 000, 00, and #4 buck recoil-wise?

[Rico911]

#4 buck for indoors. In this day and age of assault rifles, many forget the effectiveness of the shotgun.

[Heiko]

No matter what you decide on, get out and shoot with it, lots of it. Too many people buy shotguns, load them up, and never shoot them, never knowing how the recoil of a shotgun can feel.

[non sequitur]

Shotgun Ed

In addition to picking the right ammo, equip your home-defense shotgun with a nylon sling, bright light (i.e. Surefire) and a side saddle ammo carrier for extra rounds...

I use the Federal LE132 Flite Control 00 Buck, low-recoil, tactical load... no slugs, no bean bags.

[red2sniper]

Bean Bags are more of a novelty item....I've seen them work and I have seen them fail. I have seen 00 buck in action, incredible...I have seen #4, I wasn't that impressed. If recoil is an issue, get the low recoil rounds.

[tanksoldier]

They alternate 000, slug, 000, slug, and so on.

...because you're going to remember what's next in the magazine in the middle of a firefight.

Any round that will penetrate a human body reliably enough to kill will also penetrate several building walls. There's no getting around that.

The shotgun round with the least potential wall penetration BUT which can also be expected to perform adequately in the target is either #4 buck, or lead BB shot.

Both penetrate adequately in gelatin tests, and each has the least wall penetration of the rounds which have adequate gelatin penetration:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958

Lead BB:



^^^14"-15" of penetration.

#4 buckshot:



^^^16"-17" of penetration

"Adequate" penetration is generally considered to be 12-14", and both these rounds achieve that depth at "across the room" distances.

Also, would bean bags be legal to purchase in CA?

If you have to shoot somebody you have better be justified in killing them. If you ARE justified in killing them, you'd best be trying to actually kill them because they will be trying to kill you.

[Ron-Solo]

The difference in recoil between 00B and 4B is negligible. In a stress shooting situation, you won't notice the difference. The higher pellet count will give you a bigger probability of a hit with 4B, and the risk of over penetration is lessened.

I would not use a BB shot for home defense. While you may get a stopping hit at close range, why limit yourself.

I had a trip to the "two-way" range where the other players were armed with an AK47, a 9mm Taurus, and a Bersa .380 where they got the first rounds off. I was loaded with four 00B and one 4B. This, along with 3 rounds of 110 gr JHP from a .38 revolver, stopped the threat. Both types of buck shot did significant damage, base on the xrays and wound photos.

I am a fan of the shotgun, it saved my life.

[monk]

...because you're going to remember what's next in the magazine in the middle of a firefight.

Any round that will penetrate a human body reliably enough to kill will also penetrate several building walls. There's no getting around that.

The shotgun round with the least potential wall penetration BUT which can also be expected to perform adequately in the target is either #4 buck, or lead BB shot.

Both penetrate adequately in gelatin tests, and each has the least wall penetration of the rounds which have adequate gelatin penetration:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958

Lead BB:



^^^14"-15" of penetration.

#4 buckshot:



^^^16"-17" of penetration

"Adequate" penetration is generally considered to be 12-14", and both these rounds achieve that depth at "across the room" distances.



If you have to shoot somebody you have better be justified in killing them. If you ARE justified in killing them, you'd best be trying to actually kill them because they will be trying to kill you.

Is that penetration taking into account clothes they may be wearing? I've also heard you shouldn't have the mindset "shoot to kill" it should instead be, "shoot to stop".

[tanksoldier]

Is that penetration taking into account clothes they may be wearing?

The FBI penetration standard takes into account the possibility of arms, side torso shots and regular clothing I believe. It is an average. Penetration of 6" would potentially hit something vital in most adult humans given an unobstructed frontal shot. You can Google the actual FBI standards and what all goes into it.

I've also heard you shouldn't have the mindset "shoot to kill" it should instead be, "shoot to stop".

You probably have heard that. You probably heard it from somebody who's never been there and never done that.

You can potentially "stop" a threat by waving your gun like a magic wand, racking the slide of your shotgun menacingly or shooting their weapon out of their hand. You planning to try any of that?

Lawyer: If you didn't intend to kill somebody, why were you shooting at them? If you didn't intend to kill, why were you employing deadly force? Did you kill RayRay by accident?

[BigDogatPlay]

I had a trip to the "two-way" range where the other players were armed with an AK47, a 9mm Taurus, and a Bersa .380 where they got the first rounds off. I was loaded with four 00B and one 4B. This, along with 3 rounds of 110 gr JHP from a .38 revolver, stopped the threat. Both types of buck shot did significant damage, base on the xrays and wound photos.

I am a fan of the shotgun, it saved my life.

^^^ The Real World ^^^

The rest is just speculation, theory and testing. Some testing legitimate, some not.

That said, I still prefer 00B over 4B at the short distances typical of home defense but there's in reality probably not that much difference. 4B has earned a rightful place out on the street as Ron's own experience suggests where distances can be greater and more pellets in the pattern means more potential hits on target downrange. More hits on target generally means the threat ends sooner.