Tough Spot for LEO

[WmWhitfield]

I can't believe this stuff, and by that I mean I don't buy the slant against LOE. http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst...s/?page=entire

I am not a LEO, am a VietNam Vet, but did my share of anti-war protesting in the later Nam years, but to me this is trash.

They don't show what led up to the UC Davis students be sprayed. I assume there were dispersal orders. Yes, I ignored them in my day. To accuse the LT of flourishing the cemical spray is ridiculous to me. I think he was giving the sturdents one last chance to disperse. What was the alternative. The writer suggests they should have been arrested if there was PC. I suggest that exposes the students and the officers to a risk of more serious injury.

Go down an look at the beating of the male student who refused to disburse. The video is so dark (who knows if it was intentionally darkented) sp we can't see exactly what happened when the officer finally seems to decide to place the guy in custody and the guy resists. The officer then beats him about the legs when he failed to get down on the ground. I would think LEO is trying to avoid; the protester that resists arrest and escalating violence.

But lets face it. That sort of a photo op is just what the protest organizers hope to provoke.

Perhaps it is best if you guys don't comment on this as some jerk will just use anything you say to cause trouble. I just wanted to give you a vote of confidence for handing a very tough situtation.

[spread589]

Being a student at UC Davis and in the area at the time; I can say that there is way more to the story than the video shows, the videos only show a close up of what was happening and not the whole picture. what most videos dont show is the events leading up to the pepper spray or the 200-300 students that were surrounding the 30ish police officers or the arrestees that the police were trying to remove from the center of the circle of sitting protesters.

[MaHoTex]

Non-LEO here...

300 young folks surrounding 30 officers? The odds are very bad for the officers if/when the situation turns violent.

When an officer issues a command you comply, especially in that volatile situation.

These occupy ...uhm... people... are there for no apparent reason and just want to cause trouble. This group found it.

[Triad]

My favorite part(s) are the terrible videos used as "evidence"

"COPS PUNCH EVERYONE IN THE FACE!" Video shows 10 minutes of the sidewalk or the back of some dudes head.


LOL.

[tyrist]

My biggest criticism of some of the tactics used by other police departments is why they are using tear gas weapons so much. Tear gas weapons are a debilitating agent and if your purpose is to move or break up a crowd is one of the worst weapons to use. Your more than likely to end up with a ton of people just laying on the ground screaming unable to move which works counter to your goal of moving the crowd out of an area.

[greybeard]

My biggest criticism of some of the tactics used by other police departments is why they are using tear gas weapons so much. Tear gas weapons are a debilitating agent and if your purpose is to move or break up a crowd is one of the worst weapons to use. Your more than likely to end up with a ton of people just laying on the ground screaming unable to move which works counter to your goal of moving the crowd out of an area.

I have been tear gassed, you move like hell to vacate the area.

[tyrist]

I have been tear gassed, you move like hell to vacate the area.

Then you must not have received much of a dose. Tear gas weapons blind you and makes it difficult to breath; both conditions make running away near impossible.

['Ike']

Call UCD...

This is such BS...The chancelor does need to go, over investigating the officers and not her students...

http://www.kcra.com/news/29817548/detail.html

[center_x]

Tyrist; Tear gas makes you blind and difficult to breath if you choose to stand there. Once your in fresh air, you don't feel the effects.

[spread589]

I don't think the UC police officers have anything to worry about. All this negative media based on youtube videos has given me a new outlook on how media pick and choose what to display to the public. what I find odd is the use of cell phone footage over what their professional camera footage since I saw at least two professional videographers from different news agency's there the whole time.

[tozan]

Then you must not have received much of a dose. Tear gas weapons blind you and makes it difficult to breath; both conditions make running away near impossible.

I can assure you most people run like crazy. In the military I was the mean SOB that stood inside the Gas tent / building, the gas was very dense and far more potent then what police use today. I would make them remove their mask and after they got a good breath of gas I would let them leave. I never had a single person lay down and stay in the tent even though once they got out side and ran a long way from the building they often rolled around and in general were helpless.

The more gas you give them the farther a smart person will run from it.

[IrishJoe3]

Then you must not have received much of a dose. Tear gas weapons blind you and makes it difficult to breath; both conditions make running away near impossible.

[Fjold]

Then you must not have received much of a dose. Tear gas weapons blind you and makes it difficult to breath; both conditions make running away near impossible.

We were all gassed in boot camp inside of a room. We were in gas masks and the room filled with tear gas then we had to remove our masks. We had to stand in it and recite the 11 General Orders. Only then were we allowed to leave the room. Tear gas especially used outside is not debilitating.

[SVT-40]

In actuality the majority of the effect tearing agents have is psychological. the true physical effects are actually minor. A true motivated person can overcome the effects of gas.

No gas available to the police knocks you down. The police today usually use CS or pepper gas (OC) based. Sometimes the old CN gas is also used.

I was a chemical agent instructor for years, and got gassed more times than I could count. really after awhile most of the physical effects can be mitigated and one can fight through the psychological effects.

But since most rioters don't have the opportunity to become accustomed to the physical effects of gas they panic and run, which is the desired effect.

The real key to effective use of gas or pepper spray is effective application. Using a moving cloud of gas effectively to move crowds. Sprays are used to incapacitate individuals at close range to prevent them from continued resistance.

Different agents used for different purposes.

[fullrearview]

In actuality the majority of the effect tearing agents have is psychological. the true physical effects are actually minor. A true motivated person can overcome the effects of gas.

No gas available to the police knocks you down. The police today usually use CS or pepper gas (OC) based. Sometimes the old CN gas is also used.

I was a chemical agent instructor for years, and got gassed more times than I could count. really after awhile most of the physical effects can be mitigated and one can fight through the psychological effects.

But since most rioters don't have the opportunity to become accustomed to the physical effects of gas they panic and run, which is the desired effect.

The real key to effective use of gas or pepper spray is effective application. Using a moving cloud of gas effectively to move crowds. Sprays are used to incapacitate individuals at close range to prevent them from continued resistance.

Different agents used for different purposes.

Exactly.

Gas is nothing. I was able to recite my departments mission statement, knock out 50 push ups, and a ton of jumping jacks before they kicked me out.

Spray on the other hand, was a bit different. It took about 45 seconds to take effect but when it did, it was hard to function.

Its a mental thing.