Lights & Sirens when speeding?

[SVT-40]

On the contrary I pointed out what no one else had to that point. In fact there was a lot of mumbling about how cops can speed without lights on without pointing out that the situations that they can do this in probably do not apply to what he was seeing.

I pointed out that LEGALLY on paper he is correct except for a few exceptions which I and others pointed out.

NOW the OP's question is answered.

And I mentioned the Sec. Guard. thing in passing, you LE types are the one making a big deal about it. What is more important is that like you I had to study the california codes in my FD training, and had to revisit part of that with my Patrol driving training.

But your right none of that is important, it just lends credence to the more important fact that NONE of you had provided the slightest evidence to dispute anything I have said.

No, you just keep coming here and keep insisting you are right.

You did though provide a counter point to the many reasonable answers given by the experienced LEO's here.

Security guards and fire types get ZERO training on vehicle code enforcement. Since neither are LEO's the training is not even similar to the training LEO's get on vehicle code enforcement and related matters. So to say you actually "studied" the vehicle code in training is a outright lie. I'm sure some sections relevant to the duties of a security guard or fire types were discussed, but to say you received more training than a LEO is laughable.

Many have posted the "evidence" of which you speak. For some reason you just choose to discount it....

But keep it up it is mildly entertaining.

[Mr310]

Sort of on topic:

How are private security company cars allowed to have ELS devices? Do they have sirens, too? I ask because of this, and because my friend was telling me the other day that a private security guard several weeks ago tried to actually pull him over in Pacific Palisades.

[Databyter]

<cut and pasted below for clarity

No, you just keep coming here and keep insisting you are right.

You did though provide a counter point to the many reasonable answers given by the experienced LEO's here.

That's because I am right. And I am not in disagreement with what all the LE posters have said. Just you.

Security guards and fire types get ZERO training on vehicle code enforcement. Since neither are LEO's the training is not even similar to the training LEO's get on vehicle code enforcement and related matters. So to say you actually "studied" the vehicle code in training is a outright lie. I'm sure some sections relevant to the duties of a security guard or fire types were discussed, but to say you received more training than a LEO is laughable.

I never said we got training on vehicle code enforcement. Go back and try to read with a little comprension. We studied the code because we needed to be in obeyance of it, just like cops do. I certainly never said that we received MORE training. Who is the liar now. You are the one who keeps misquoting me.

You have called me a liar and in doing so have made a fool of yourself. I will not drop to your level. As any FF1 or above what their college course of study entails.

It's a riduculous proposition to assume they send Fire Dept. Apparatus out on the street with no requirement for training in the appropriate sections of the VC which is the same section that spells out the code for all emergency operators.

Many have posted the "evidence" of which you speak. For some reason you just choose to discount it....

I haven't discounted any evidence because it all agrees with my statements.

But keep it up it is mildly entertaining.

It's mildy entertaining only to you. Misquoting me and harrassing me for career choices and slamming the Fire Dept. training and calling me a liar just makes you happy. I myself and uncomfortable with it and am only here to defend my honor from your misrepresentation and attack. I'm sure I am not alone in being sorry to see a thread devolve into you slugging me and me defending myself.

I'm not sure what your point is here but you have devolved into personal attacks and it is not necessary. I've got nothing against you, I've got nothing against cops. I have supported cops and LE my whole life and have defended them on many forums as required.
I have not said anything that is incorrect. You on the other hand are just out of control and are spewing hate for my career choices, calling me a liar, and still have not provided one iota of evidence to prove that I am in any way wrong.

Grow up.

[Databyter]

Sort of on topic:

How are private security company cars allowed to have ELS devices? Do they have sirens, too? I ask because of this, and because my friend was telling me the other day that a private security guard several weeks ago tried to actually pull him over in Pacific Palisades.

Private Security, depending on the Company and the Clients and Mission can have just about anything that is needed, but they are not LE and cannot pull you over on a public street.

On a private Property they may attempt to stop you for various reasons (like you aren't supposed to be where you are).

Private security is now very necessary for Businesses, Large Corporations, and even Military bases, because there just aren't enough LE to go around and the before-mentioned can get customized service to their needs that includes executive protection and the like and the response times are much better.

At my last job the Alarms we responded to were all Dept of Defense contractors and by contract they needed to have a certain response time for a certain level of DOD security requirement. We were required to provide armed response within 15 minutes of the initial alarm, and I usually cut that in half.

Lights and Sirens yes, but not on a public road unless you are using hazard lights for an accident or other danger, and only LE is allowed to use blue lights in their emergency light bar, so you can tell the difference. I rarely used mine except as required by contract purposes for certain driveby's (for deterrant).

[kermit315]

BWWAAHHHAAAA !!!..........I LMAO at this !!!!

This ain't Florida, Bro..........."Law don't go 'round here, savvy ???"

What happened in Miami isnt indicative of the state of Florida either.....FHP and the locals get along great, and back each other up down here too.

BTW, graduated the academy last night. Take the state test next week and am trying to get orders to Jax so I can get on as a reserve and not lose my certification.

[SVT-40]

The point is you are wrong and refuse to admit it. I never slammed you or any fire types. In fact I said "I'm sure you good at your job".

I do object to your inaccurate comparison between the training LEO's, fire employees and security guards receive in relation to the vehicle code. You can't know what training LEO's get because you have never been to any LEO training related to that subject or most any LEO training related to any LEO situation.

That is the true issue.

You are making claims as if you received the same training and have the same job experiences as many veteran LEO's here. You clearly do not have that training or experience to back up your opinions.

[Databyter]

The point is you are wrong and refuse to admit it. I never slammed you or any fire types. In fact I said "I'm sure you good at your job".

I do object to your inaccurate comparison between the training LEO's, fire employees and security guards receive in relation to the vehicle code. You can't know what training LEO's get because you have never been to any LEO training related to that subject or most any LEO training related to any LEO situation.

That is the true issue.

You are making claims as if you received the same training and have the same job experiences as many veteran LEO's here. You clearly do not have that training or experience to back up your opinions.

I'm not wrong. What I have said is consistant to what the CVC says, and I don't see any LE in here disputing it but you.

And I have never claimed any quality of training comparison between LE and other agencies. YOU did that all by yourself.

I only claimed that I was familiar with that section of the VC and provided the reason why.

you have never been to any LEO training related to that subject or most any LEO training related to any LEO situation.

This is incorrect too, and also another assumption. It was in fact LE that came to the Academy class and lectured to us about these things. I guess he liked the FD more than some cops. Not that it is relevant, but we also learned about deputization and citizens arrest, in the Fire Academy, FROM LE instructors. Who is assuming here? You or me?

I never claimed I had any LE experience. That is YOUR incorrect assumption.

Please go back and read my posts with an open mind and forget your bais as you do so.

I've got no axe to grind with you brother. I'm sure you are a great guy. So am I.

[SVT-40]

[TRICKSTER]

Round and round we go, where we stop, nobody but the mods know.

[kermit315]

what you say:

There is a requirement that they be responding to an emergency or an incident. In other words there has to be a reason.

And 99% of the time they are supposed to have thier lights on although sometimes a siren is not necessary and can even startle people if it goes off unexpectedly right next to them. You use common sense with that one. In heavy traffic turn it on and leave it on to warn cars several blocks away.

I've had this argument with people on the board before, but until I see differently in black and white with a VC number in front of it, every speeding cop needs to use their emergency forward lights when speeding.

The instances of detectives doing surveilance or other exceptions are quite rare and do not apply to marked vehicles in most cases.

That being said, cops do what they want and their buddies are not going to write them up provided they are not being super reckless.

I would report what you saw to your local field office to the highest ranking guy that will talk to you (or it won't arrive) if you feel this is repetative and dangerous.

A quickly accelerating police car that is trying to respond somewhere quickly on an empty road in the middle of the night without lights may be technically breaking the law but they are not necesarily being unsafe, so personally I would not worry about it unless it was at dusk every night with kids and other drivers etc.

Bottom line tho, technically unless they are actively on an incident that requires haste (in which case they need lights to speed), police are subject to the same vehicle codes as every other citizen.

What the CVC says (since you wont look it up, or are ignoring it):

Exemption of Authorized Emergency Vehicles

21055. The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle is exempt from Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 21350), Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 21650), Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 21800), Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 21950), Chapter 6 (commencing with 22100), Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 22348), Chapter 8 (commencing with Section 22450), Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 22500), and Chapter 10 (commencing with Section 22650) of this division, and Article 3 (commencing with Section 38305) and Article 4 (commencing with Section 38312) of Chapter 5 of Division 16.5, under all of the following conditions:

(a) If the vehicle is being driven in response to an emergency call or while engaged in rescue operations or is being used in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or is responding to, but not returning from, a fire alarm, except that fire department vehicles are exempt whether directly responding to an emergency call or operated from one place to another as rendered desirable or necessary by reason of an emergency call and operated to the scene of the emergency or operated from one fire station to another or to some other location by reason of the emergency call.

(b) If the driver of the vehicle sounds a siren as may be reasonably necessary and the vehicle displays a lighted red lamp visible from the front as a warning to other drivers and pedestrians.

A siren shall not be sounded by an authorized emergency vehicle except when required under this section.

Its not all or nothing, its either - or. If it was all or nothing, there would be an 'and' between (a) and (b).

[Databyter]

what you say:



What the CVC says (since you wont look it up, or are ignoring it):



Its not all or nothing, its either - or. If it was all or nothing, there would be an 'and' between (a) and (b).

Thanks, but I'm not sure why you are addressing it at me since it is consistant 100% with everything I have said on this thread.

I had no need to look it up since I have known it for years, and also since it was posted very early in this thread, as were the exceptions to the rule.

[kermit315]

Because of this statement by you. It directly contradicts what the CVC says.

every speeding cop needs to use their emergency forward lights when speeding.

[Databyter]

Because of this statement by you. It directly contradicts what the CVC says.

Taken out of context.

The exceptions were pointed out by myself and others and have never been in question.

And those exceptions, like pacing and surveillance are not likely to be the cause of what the OP described.

Surveillance is not usually done from speeding marked police cars, and pacing requires another car to pace.

[kermit315]

No, its not taken out of context.....I might have bought that if you hadn't parroted it in another thread. You think that 99% of the time the lights and siren must be running, and you are wrong.

but until I see differently in black and white with a VC number in front of it, every speeding cop needs to use their emergency forward lights when speeding.

So, now you have seen it with a CVC number in front of it. Is that good enough for you?

[Databyter]

No, its not taken out of context.....I might have bought that if you hadn't parroted it in another thread. You think that 99% of the time the lights and siren must be running, and you are wrong.



So, now you have seen it with a CVC number in front of it. Is that good enough for you?

Go back and read it again sir.
22348 (B)

And tell me where the quoted statement is incorrect. Keeping in mind that I said NOTHING about the need for a siren as you misquote.

In fact I stated it was only used as common sense dictates.

The CODE is saying what I am saying.

I was correct in the other thread as well. Right is right. Location is irrelevant.

p.s. The reason you guys can't find what you are looking for is that it does not exist, nor does it need to exist. You are not going to get busted by your equals for using common sense on the job to get the job done. And no Legislator is ever going to provide the police with above the law status. Enjoy it. Don't argue about it.