Lights & Sirens when speeding?

[SVT-40]

There are some exceptions, but not too many.

The opinions being tossed are largely accurate and informative and on the topic of the OP's question. He's not talking about pacing, he is talking about speeding.

Databyter you really know very little of what you write about. Those of you who are not LEO's really have no basis on which to have a meaningful opinion because all you know is what you have seen on the internet.

Literally anything can be an exception. If a LEO sees a suspicious vehicle he can exceed to speed limit (and or not follow other VC sections) to catch up with it. Pacing (speeding) can be an exception. Getting to a situation where a siren would give away a LEO's presence could be a exception. In surveillance keeping eyes on a suspect could be an exception.

In other words anything which a LEO can reasonable explain could be an exception to following the letter of the vehicle code.

Heck, LEO's sometimes turn off all their vehicles lights when making a surreptitious approach to a location at night. Are you saying a LEO must turn on his lights and siren during those situations too? After all it's illegal to operate a vehicle at night without proper lights displayed...Many agencies even have kill switches for brake lights on their patrol units, so would it also be illegal for officers to use the kill switches to disable their brake lights?

Remember all the violations we are talking about are infractions so one is like another.

The bottom line is a LEO can violate the vehicle code if needed to do his job, as long as it's reasonable and done with due regard for the safety of his fellow citizens.

If you are saying a LEO should not speed for "kicks". Okay that's reasonable. However just because you see a LEO speeding and it's not obvious as to why he is speeding does not mean that he is doing anything wrong. All it means is you are just not aware of the reason.

[TRICKSTER]

So when you speed up to catch up to a violator, you need to activate your lights and siren? Good way to end up in a lot of pursuits and put the public at risk. Real smart to light them up before your even close enough to get a plate.
This is a forum for people ask LEO's for answers. It is NOT a forum for non LEO's to post what they think the answers should be, that's what OT is for.

[Databyter]

Databyter you really know very little of what you write about. Those of you who are not LEO's really have no basis on which to have a meaningful opinion because all you know is what you have seen on the internet.

Literally anything can be an exception. If a LEO sees a suspicious vehicle he can exceed to speed limit (and or not follow other VC sections) to catch up with it. Pacing (speeding) can be an exception. Getting to a situation where a siren would give away a LEO's presence could be a exception. In surveillance keeping eyes on a suspect could be an exception.

In other words anything which a LEO can reasonable explain could be an exception to following the letter of the vehicle code.

Heck, LEO's sometimes turn off all their vehicles lights when making a surreptitious approach to a location at night. Are you saying a LEO must turn on his lights and siren during those situations too? After all it's illegal to operate a vehicle at night without proper lights displayed...Many agencies even have kill switches for brake lights on their patrol units, so would it also be illegal for officers to use the kill switches to disable their brake lights?

Remember all the violations we are talking about are infractions so one is like another.

The bottom line is a LEO can violate the vehicle code if needed to do his job, as long as it's reasonable and done with due regard for the safety of his fellow citizens.

If you are saying a LEO should not speed for "kicks". Okay that's reasonable. However just because you see a LEO speeding and it's not obvious as to why he is speeding does not mean that he is doing anything wrong. All it means is you are just not aware of the reason.

No, you're wrong.

I know what the law is.

I'm not saying that is what cops always do, and I'm not saying they should do it. I'm just answering the OP's question.

And the very few exceptions are obvious.

But more often than not when you see a cop speeding without lights he is in violation of the VC and Written Policy.

I haven't seen too many city cops pulling over speeders on the freeway, but I have seen a ton of them going 85+ mph without lights. They are breaking the law.

If the silent approach bank robbery is 10 miles away it doesn't mean cops don't use their lights for 10 miles, it means they turn them off a few blocks away and it is not SOP to approach that way. As far as surveilance is concerned, it's not usually done with marked police cars.

If they are catching up to a vehicle of course that is an exception, and it has been mentioned here.

Everybody has already mentioned the exceptions, which do not apply to the OP's question. You are adding nothing.

And I DO know alot about it. I drove a Private Alarm Response Patrol for years (not LE) responding to alarms and such and I talked to cops all the time about this subject. I have also responded code and non code during my many years as a Firefighter and we have many or the same rules as the cops. We had to learn the California codes before we could drive our equipment. Granted I forget most of it as it was years ago, but nobody has demonstrated any fundamental change in policies. IF anything it is a lot more chicken **** now than it was back a decade ago.

You talk a big game sir but show me in writing where Cops do not have to obey the vehicle code. In many cases they are just speeding because they can get away with it. I don't lose any sleep over it, but it is what it is.

If a cop is pacing somebody then somebody has to be around them speeding. If the cop is blasting 20 mph faster than anyone and bottoming out at every intersection w/o lights on then they are breaking their own policies in most cases. Do I care? No. But they are.

They speed for the same reason we do. To get somewhere faster. Period.

I'm SURE there are alot of LE types who think it is a real written policy because that is the environment that they exist in. But they would be bewildered to find nothing in writing to back them up. Fortunately they don't need to because people on the job know what needs to be done and they just do it and nobody is going to bust them including and especially their own buddies and Dept and the D.A who needs to have repore.

I do agree with what you said here.

However just because you see a LEO speeding and it's not obvious as to why he is speeding does not mean that he is doing anything wrong. All it means is you are just not aware of the reason.

But there is also not always a reason. The fact that they won't get pulled over or can invent an excuse on the spot does not change that.

[TRICKSTER]

No, you're wrong.

I know what the law is.

I'm not saying that is what cops always do, and I'm not saying they should do it. I'm just answering the OP's question.

And the very few exceptions are obvious.

But more often than not when you see a cop speeding without lights he is in violation of the VC and Written Policy.

I haven't seen too many city cops pulling over speeders on the freeway, but I have seen a ton of them going 85+ mph without lights. They are breaking the law.

If the silent approach bank robbery is 10 miles away it doesn't mean cops don't use their lights for 10 miles, it means they turn them off a few blocks away and it is not SOP to approach that way. As far as surveilance is concerned, it's not usually done with marked police cars.

If they are catching up to a vehicle of course that is an exception, and it has been mentioned here.

Everybody has already mentioned the exceptions, which do not apply to the OP's question. You are adding nothing.

And I DO know alot about it. I drove a Private Alarm Response Patrol for years (not LE) responding to alarms and such and I talked to cops all the time about this subject. I have also responded code and non code during my many years as a Firefighter and we have many or the same rules as the cops. We had to learn the California codes before we could drive our equipment. Granted I forget most of it as it was years ago, but nobody has demonstrated any fundamental change in policies. IF anything it is a lot more chicken **** now than it was back a decade ago.

You talk a big game sir but show me in writing where Cops do not have to obey the vehicle code. In many cases they are just speeding because they can get away with it. I don't lose any sleep over it, but it is what it is.

If a cop is pacing somebody then somebody has to be around them speeding. If the cop is blasting 20 mph faster than anyone and bottoming out at every intersection w/o lights on then they are breaking their own policies in most cases. Do I care? No. But they are.

They speed for the same reason we do. To get somewhere faster. Period.

I'm SURE there are alot of LE types who think it is a real written policy because that is the environment that they exist in. But they would be bewildered to find nothing in writing to back them up. Fortunately they don't need to because people on the job know what needs to be done and they just do it and nobody is going to bust them including and especially their own buddies and Dept and the D.A who needs to have repore.

So basically you here playing LEO because you "think" you know what LEO's do because you "drove a Private Alarm Response Patrol for years (not LE) responding to alarms and such and I talked to cops all the time about this subject." This is not the forum for that.

[Databyter]

So basically you here playing LEO because you "think" you know what LEO's do because you "drove a Private Alarm Response Patrol for years (not LE) responding to alarms and such and I talked to cops all the time about this subject." This is not the forum for that.

I'm not playing at anything. I stated in my post I was not LE.

The OP can read what I said as a citizen and read what you and others have said and make up his own mind which makes more sense.

My only point in bringing up my nightly encounters with LE and my years of experience driving code to accidents and fires was to add some validation to my opinion. It is up to the reader to decide if my experiences are irrelevant.

I have talked to cops in the field about what is legal and what I can do and what they can do and on more than one occasion.

That being said I honestly did not realize that this was the LEO forum as I just originally hit the topic from the "new posts" button having had insomnia for a few weeks.

I can see how my posts might be annoying to LE here. However apparently since no LE admitted the truth of the matter and assume that all their LE buddies are infallable and never break the law I am glad I was here to add a bit of reality.

I'm done now, you guys can have this forum back and have a party or w/e.

Just remember that cops serve us and they are not above the law and they must obey the vehicle code unless there is a reason stated in the defined exceptions, and THEN they must follow procedures under law. But as I said before, Idon't care what they do. Common sense works for me provided they are not abusing their power too much or being dangerous.

p.s. And just for the record I am pro-LE and think they on average do an amazing job.

[lavgrunt]

No, you're wrong.

I know what the law is.

You talk a big game sir but show me in writing where Cops do not have to obey the vehicle code. In many cases they are just speeding because they can get away with it. I don't lose any sleep over it, but it is what it is.

WOW, Jim !!!

Apparently, your 30+ years of ACTUAL street experience mean nothing ???!!!!

LOL !!!!!!

[Bobby Ricigliano]

[Databyter]

None of that has anything to do with legality. The OP asked about legality, not whether cops break the law every day because it makes more sense and their Capt. says its ok.

And I have done all of those things simultaneously. I was dispatched with computer technology and had to review different private property policies on the way to sometimes unfamiliar areas as I skirted the speed limit to try to catch the bad guys in the act while I operated GPS, Manuals, Maps, and my PDA and talked to my dispatcher and various alarm Companies.

I was pretty damn good at it and did catch some bad guys, and with a lot less safety and support than the PD offers most of you, so I guess I don't need to disappear just yet.

You don't need to remind me of the disrespect that some LE have for private agencies that do similar work.

And speed all you want. It's no skin off my back and I don't have an issue with it.

I speed all the time, and for the same reasons. I am in a hurry and it's important to me.

[Ron-Solo]

Hmmmmm........

Cops vs. Rent-A-Cops?

[TRICKSTER]

None of that has anything to do with legality. The OP asked about legality, not whether cops break the law every day because it makes more sense and their Capt. says its ok.

And I have done all of those things simultaneously. I was dispatched with computer technology and had to review different private property policies on the way to sometimes unfamiliar areas as I skirted the speed limit to try to catch the bad guys in the act while I operated GPS, Manuals, Maps, and my PDA and talked to my dispatcher and various alarm Companies.

I was pretty damn good at it and did catch some bad guys, and with a lot less safety and support than the PD offers most of you, so I guess I don't need to disappear just yet.

You don't need to remind me of the disrespect that some LE have for private agencies that do similar work.

And speed all you want. It's no skin off my back and I don't have an issue with it.

I speed all the time, and for the same reasons. I am in a hurry and it's important to me.

And what does any of this have to do with answering questions directed to LEOs when you are obviously not one?
That "disrespect that some LE have for private agencies that do similar work" shows the problem. Some security guards THINK that they are the same as LEOs, push the limits of what they are allowed to do and make a big mess that some LEO will have to clean up and may even screw up a good case.
Stick to your job, and you wont have a problem. Rolling to alarm calls while busting speed limits and traffic signals is not your job. I have had to remind a few of your cohorts of that fact and yes, those that did not learn the first time got cited.

[IrishJoe3]

Some security guards THINK that they are the same as LEOs, push the limits of what they are allowed to do and make a big mess that some LEO will have to clean up and may even screw up a good case.

QFT!

[Helpful_Cub]

I know and have seen LA County Sheriff Deputies being pulled over by Highway Patrol on Hwy-14 north of LA for speeding without lights or sirens on. They even issue tickets which from what I understand are really pricey since they're usually cruising around 90mph when they get tagged.

There is no love between CHIP and the Deputies.

[Ron-Solo]

I know and have seen LA County Sheriff Deputies being pulled over by Highway Patrol on Hwy-14 north of LA for speeding without lights or sirens on. They even issue tickets which from what I understand are really pricey since they're usually cruising around 90mph when they get tagged.

There is no love between CHIP and the Deputies.

Not very likely

[mej16489]

Not very likely

Since I can't respond any more nicely then he just did ... I'm simply going to quote Ron

[IrishJoe3]

I know and have seen LA County Sheriff Deputies being pulled over by Highway Patrol on Hwy-14 north of LA for speeding without lights or sirens on. They even issue tickets which from what I understand are really pricey since they're usually cruising around 90mph when they get tagged.

There is no love between CHIP and the Deputies.

Yeah I'm gonna say no to that one.

In my area the Deputies and Chippies work GREAT together.