LAPD switching to glock 17?

[tyrist]

This is true. I know we shoot a lot. I hesitate in saying that LE shoots more than the average citizen, because there are some sensitive people on this board who would probably disagree, and get upset. I did not want to start another debate/war. Lol.

However, I shoot my on duty gun (Beretta 92) quite a bit. After thousands of rounds, it finally took a dump on me. I was at a live fire training class when it decided it did not want to play anymore. I'm not sure what specific piece failed, but I think it might be the trigger reset spring/pin..? When I fired the given course of fire, I would have to manually reset my trigger back to DA, and push a piece on the left hand side, back in. I hope this makes sense. Lol.

I took it to my dept. Armorer, told him what happened, and he knew exactly what it was. He asked how long I had been on, and how much I shot the gun. He had it fixed in about 5 mins. In and out. He said the spring had worn out and snapped. Not common, but known to happen with high round counts.

All I could think of was "What if this happened while I was in a gunfight?"

I don't think LEOs shoot more than the average citizen but they probably use a single firearm far more than an average citizen. Shooting a pistol is also not the only way for it wear down either.

[ap3572001]

I don't think LEOs shoot more than the average citizen but they probably use a single firearm far more than an average citizen. Shooting a pistol is also not the only way for it wear down either.

You are right. But LEO's ,when they qualify, shoot, holster, reload, drop their magazines , use week hand etc. it is different form just going to the range and shooting groups.

We also use GOOD ammo.

No reloads, no Wolff etc.

Only use factory magazines.

Lubrication, ammunition and magazines are HUGE factors in how the pistol runs.

PS. I shoot every week. Twice a week. About 300-400 rounds centerfire pistol. Every 90 days another 100 rounds at work.

[biochembruin]

From my experience working with LAPD Firearms Training Unit, the problem with the Glocks were more of an ammo issue than an issue with the gun. It is true that Glock went ahead and changed all of the firing pins for the department weapons, but the problem was attributed to the practice ammo used, which is shot in much more quantities than the duty ammo. Specifically, it was the Winchester Super Clean NT in .40 used in the academy that seemed to be causing issues with wearing of firing pins.

The current Chief seems to be moving toward authorizing more weapons. This can be seen by a number of changes in policy, such as allowing officers trained on the Glock to transition to decocker weapons, the authorization of the .380 backup weapons, and the 1911 program for patrol officers. I was also present during the testing the XD and the M&P. Since the department has historically had a strong relationship with Smith and Wesson for a variety of reasons, they seem to be favoring the M&P over the XD. They really want to stay with a striker fired pistol as an issue weapon. We'll see how it goes.

[retired]

I am figuring that at some point the Dept will allow us to buy out our issued Berettas. Mine is beat all to hell but I am pretty attached to it and it has had zero malfunctions or issues EVER.

Don't be surprised when they do. They did the same for us "old guys" back in late 1989, early 1990, when they transitioned from the revolvers to the 92f.

The downside (at least for me) was they only permitted you to buy the one issued to you. I was issued the S&W Model 15 .38cal, which was blued. I don't recall what year they began issuing the Model 66, a SS .357 magnum, but I would rather have bought one of those.

There were plenty of people who did not buy their issued gun, so there were plenty of 66s available. I even saw a drawer full of them when I went into Logistics to buy my model 15. When I asked if I could buy one of them, I was told no by the clerk. When I asked why, I was told, "Because."

Don't get me wrong, I like my revolver. It was used when issued to me in 1976. It has never not fired when the trigger was pulled and I have not had one problem with it. I take it to the range frequently also. Cost: $150. I bought my Beretta when I retired for $300 and have never had a problem with it either.

[Ron-Solo]

Retired, those weren't model 66's, they were Model 67's, which were a stainless version of the Model 15's we were issued. Two of my trainees had them before we went to the Berettas. They were only issued for a couple of years and were brand new when issued, unlike the used ones we got. I bought my Model 15, which is still a great shooter. I probably shoot it better than any other gun I own.

[Gnome]

I bought my Model 15, which is still a great shooter. I probably shoot it better than any other gun I own.

I've noticed that those "old timers" that came on with the revolvers, tend to be pretty good shooters with the semi-autos. Coincidence? I doubt it. I was told that when we transitioned from revolvers to semi-autos, our on duty "deputy involved shooting" hit percentage decreased.

I guess with the larger capacity magazines, we went from measured shots to more of a "spray and pray" mentality.

[Che762x39]

Don't be surprised when they do. They did the same for us "old guys" back in late 1989, early 1990, when they transitioned from the revolvers to the 92f.

That transition occurred with Class #6-89 that graduated in Dec 1989.

I still think the 92FS is the perfect police and/or military pistol. Of course in retirement I carry a Colt 1911A1 .45 ACP.

[tacticalcity]

In the military I was issued the M9. My only option. I adopted the mindset that is was an excellent tool and I was going to master it. Didn't matter if it was true. That was the mindset I needed in order to stay motivated to learn and become proficient. I needed to trust what was on my hip and trust in my effectiveness with it. So I set the tune in my head to "up-beat" and went from there.

Later I discovered the Glock, and discovered through training how much faster and dependable it was as a self-defense weapon. No longer in the military I had a choice about what I carried and could afford to allow myself to become a Beretta hater. Something that would have really gotten in my way as an an Airman.

My point is that *****ing and complaining about your issued gun is a complete waste of time. You have to adopt a positive mindset about the weapon you are issued regardless of what it is. Otherwise that negative thinking is just going to get in the way of your becoming truly proficient with the weapon system. All that time spent *****ing and complaining would be much better spent focusing on training. Just like in sports. Winners adopt a winning attitude.

I've trained side by side with guys so focused on hating their gun (usually NOT a Glock) that they completely missed all the important information and techniques being taught in those classes. No matter how much they *****, they are still stuck with the gun. So it is pointless. They needed to man up and embrace it so that they could get the most out of what little training was provided to them on the departments dime. instead they completely wasted everyone's time over a mindset failure.

Not saying that applies to anyone here. Just pointing out an observation.

Now, for the OP. Like I said I was issued a Beretta for years. My first handgun purchase was a Beretta as well. The more advanced training I got the more I found it to be a very slow and complicated gun. A great gun for range shooting but a terrible gun for wining a firefight. Built to keep insurance companies and lawyers happy. While on the otherhand I absolutely love the Glock. It is fast, simple to use, and a perfect gun for when fractions of a second mean the difference between life and death. So when I first read about LAPD (the most well known LEO using the Beretta) was switching to the Glock, it brought a HUGE grin to my face. Just more justification for what I have been preaching for years. But I could afford to be choosy...the officer who is issued something really can't. He has to have a good mindset in order to truly master what he is issued. If he hates his gun, that is going to be a distraction for him all the time he is training. It gets in the way of success.

[Cali-Shooter]

The Glock 17 is an excellent duty/service gun, being issued one should be considered an honor.

I've seen LA county Corrections/Security officers in the Pomona Courthouse with grimey, worn-out Beretta 9mm's in their holsters, and while if you were in their shoes, you are not in a position to complain, I would use what I would be issued, but that wouldn't mean that I would like it.

[Trigger Finger]

I have been issued Glock 17 in early 1994. Got issued another one (GEN3) several years ago. Still have it on my hip.
I also own a pair of Glock 34's. (Gen 3).

I run FED HST 147's in all of them and shoot them a lot.

NEVER HAD ISSUES.

I owned a Glock 21 (GEN2) and Glock 30 GEN3. Sold them both after having reliability issues with both.

I carry a GEN3 G23 off duty and have no problems. (shoot it a lot too)

From what I have seen, Glock is at its BEST in 9mm with full size and mid size models. 34,17,19.

But since HUGE portion of American LEO's are issued a G22, I can really see how it can be so bad.

Sorry, but with the quote you included it made it sound like you were LAPD!! If you were you weren't issued a Glock in 1994 or 2004!!

And most people I know in Northern Ca. don't shoot nearly as much as a police officer!!

No one can convince me that a 9MM is as good as a 45ACP. Who ever said this has not been in a shooting with both, thus SWAT and SIS continue using a 45ACP.

I have heard of LAPD going back to 9MM, but this was a cost factor and most people can shoot a 9 better than a 40, thus additional pistols might become available. The option to continue going to 40 or 45 would still be available.