Riot Questions for LEO's

[kimber_ss]

I agree. Driving away and trying to miss hitting anybody so the car would continue to move forward. But if I did get stuck, I wouldn't hesitate to do what had to be done.

[Notorious]

If they are walking down the street, run the other way. If they are kicking in the door of my house, it's going to become a free fire zone right quick. I ain't messing around when it comes to that. A man ain't retreating when it's his castle that's being overrun. First turd in the doorway gets a load of buck in the face. Maybe a slug, depends on which shotgun I grab.

If in a car, well, they best learn to move quick because my 5,000 pounds of american iron ain't stopping for nobody.

[BigDogatPlay]

The iconic images of Reginald Denny come to mind... pulled from the cab of his tractor trailer and getting his shull caved in during the opening moments of the Rodney King riots. He could have, assuming his tractor was running, driven himself out of the situation. He didn't and the crowd overwhelmed him.

Long story short, in a car the gas pedal is your friend. Even a three cylinder Geo Metro has more horsepower than a crowd of dirtbags looking to make you a riot victim. Keep moving forward, carefully, but if your windows start getting smashed and arms are coming in the car reaching for you, it might be time to consider applying more gas.

Walking the street... hopefully you see them before they see you. Then it becomes about situational awareness and evasion.

[oldironpants]

Could you please cite it for my own edification?

197. Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in
any of the following cases:
1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a
felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
2. When committed in defense of habitation, property, or person,
against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or
surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends
and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter
the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any
person therein; or,
3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a
wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress, or servant of such
person, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to
commit a felony or to do some great bodily injury, and imminent
danger of such design being accomplished; but such person, or the
person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was the assailant
or engaged in mutual combat, must really and in good faith have
endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was
committed; or,
4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and
means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in
lawfully suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving
the peace.


198. A bare fear of the commission of any of the offenses mentioned
in subdivisions 2 and 3 of Section 197, to prevent which homicide
may be lawfully committed, is not sufficient to justify it. But the
circumstances must be sufficient to excite the fears of a reasonable
person, and the party killing must have acted under the influence of
such fears alone.

[Lost.monkey]

197. Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in
any of the following cases:
1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a
felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
2. When committed in defense of habitation, property, or person,
against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or
surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends
and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter
the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any
person therein; or,
3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a
wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress, or servant of such
person, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to
commit a felony or to do some great bodily injury, and imminent
danger of such design being accomplished; but such person, or the
person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was the assailant
or engaged in mutual combat, must really and in good faith have
endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was
committed; or,
4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and
means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in
lawfully suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving
the peace.


198. A bare fear of the commission of any of the offenses mentioned
in subdivisions 2 and 3 of Section 197, to prevent which homicide
may be lawfully committed, is not sufficient to justify it. But the
circumstances must be sufficient to excite the fears of a reasonable
person, and the party killing must have acted under the influence of
such fears alone.

Thanks!

[Notorious]

Riotous is not what they use to equal riot. Don't take it a such.

People can riot without giving you justification for deadly force.

Just like felonious in the law does not mean felony.

Be very careful.

[Notorious]

In other words, you may in fact be justified in using deadly force against someone who is acting in a riotous manner in trying to get into your house to hurt you. However, if he is alone, he is not... Rioting.

Two people who are making a lot of noise to get into your house to hurt you might give you justification to use deadly force, but they aren't rioting either.

Rioting does not equal acting in a riotous manner under pc197.

[oldironpants]

To expand on Notorious' thoughts, an emphasis must be also be placed on "fear," and that bare fear alone does not satisfy the statute. This goes back to the judicial standard of, "what would a reasonable person do under the same set of circumstances."

Anyone can "fear" that they may be hurt by a crowd, but what are the articulatible facts that say that this person is in fear of death or great bodily injury from the actions that are posed eminently toward them or to another?

[Bobby Ricigliano]

198.5 of the California penal code offers guidance here to home invasion type scenarios.

[Notorious]

Post it up.

[chiselchst]

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/198.5.html

or

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/1/8/1/s198.5

Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or
great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to
have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great
bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that
force is used against another person, not a member of the family or
household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and
forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or
had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant
or substantial physical injury.