Riot Questions for LEO's

[Lost.monkey]

The riot in the UK has some interesting details: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08...ioting-crisis/

How should an individual be expected to act (if armed) to a door-to-door invasion by these rioting youth? If there are 20-30 unarmed but violent youth coming down the street, and kicking in doors, it permissible to open fire on the invading crowd?

Also, Milwaukee has had rioting issues following the state fair this weekend: http://www.conservativerefocus.com/b...kee-state-fair

Same question; 200-300 Black youth went ballistic and targeted any white people they ran across. If my car is blocked off, and I have no exit (but I do have my trunk gun handy), is it permissible for a civilian to open fire into a crowd like this?

I only as ask the numbers seen in the two above examples show that social media and texting can spawn a flash mob to overwhelm the police; will a civilian be held accountable (if retreat is not an option) for firing into a violent, unreasonable crowd? Or is it reasonable that if a social breakdown of this magnitude is to occur, than firing into the crowd would be rendered moot in the preservation of life and order?

[Lost.monkey]

[Lost.monkey]

And another example in Philly: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/09...est=latestnews

[Leadmaster]

[SVT-40]

The riot in the UK has some interesting details: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08...ioting-crisis/

How should an individual be expected to act (if armed) to a door-to-door invasion by these rioting youth? If there are 20-30 unarmed but violent youth coming down the street, and kicking in doors, it permissible to open fire on the invading crowd?

You would be expected to act reasonably. Just because an angry group is coming down the street would not give you good cause to shoot anyone. Now if that same group kicked in your door and you were in reasonable fear for your life or your family's life THEN it could be reasonable for you to use force to defend yourself.

Same for the cops. Just because a angry group of individuals is "rioting" does not give them free reign to open fire.

Also, Milwaukee has had rioting issues following the state fair this weekend: http://www.conservativerefocus.com/b...kee-state-fair

Same question; 200-300 Black youth went ballistic and targeted any white people they ran across. If my car is blocked off, and I have no exit (but I do have my trunk gun handy), is it permissible for a civilian to open fire into a crowd like this?

In that situation if you were to reasonably be in fear for your life leaving your car to retrieve a firearm would not be your best choice. Using your vehicle to flee the situation would be a much more prudent option. If needed and as a last resort a 2,000 + pound vehicle would be a much more valuable weapon than any firearm. In addition the race of a mob is really irrelevant in most situations.

I only as ask the numbers seen in the two above examples show that social media and texting can spawn a flash mob to overwhelm the police; will a civilian be held accountable (if retreat is not an option) for firing into a violent, unreasonable crowd? Or is it reasonable that if a social breakdown of this magnitude is to occur, than firing into the crowd would be rendered moot in the preservation of life and order?

Every situation is different. So each will be judged on it's own merits alone.

Yes, you will be held accountable if the force you use in any situation is not reasonable.

[TrailerparkTrash]

As long as your a "true" victim as observed by any "reasonable" person given the circumstances, you're all good. If i have a mob of 30 people comming to attack me, last thing im gonna worry about is getting arrested for defending myself and family with my 12ga against that violent mob.

[Yugo]

I know most of you dont agree with a "BLANK" first warning shot but in this situation maybe makes sense for it. At least you can capture everyones (30+ peopl) attention letting them know they will be in for a world of hurtin.

[JeffM]

CA Penal Code is clear that homicide is justified to put down a riot.

Neither here nor there, just a true statement to think about.

[blakdawg]

I don't give a **** what someone thinks is reasonable (whether that someone is a cop, a judge, or a jury member) - if I've got a mob of people invading my house I'm taking as many of them with me as I can.

I'd rather let them see that I'm armed and ready and let them go on their way to hurt someone else if they're willing. I'm not Superman (or even a Texas Ranger) and I'm not going to stop a riot on my own. But I'm also not going to let a bunch of feral humans beat me or my family to death or burn us up in my own house without emptying my mags.

Search YouTube for "Reginald Denny" for the event that crystallized my thinking about this almost 20 years ago. Nothing's changed.

1-on-1 violence is tough enough - but if the odds are 5-on-1 or 10-on-1 (or worse) I'm not going to monkey around with slowly walking up the scale of lethality for use of force because chances are if it doesn't get shut down fast I won't live (or at least be conscious) long enough to even change mags.

[Lost.monkey]

Add some fuel to the fire...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/10/flashmob-attacks-in-us-cities-raise-questions-over-possible-race-motivation/

This appears to be surfacing in greater frequency; I'm beginning to think an increase in this type of behavior is to be expected, as they are only emboldend by each successful attack.

It seems likely to me that someone will be tested with the exact scenario I've described, and will be faced with the choice: shoot, run, or die.

[Lost.monkey]

CA Penal Code is clear that homicide is justified to put down a riot.

Neither here nor there, just a true statement to think about.

Could you please cite it for my own edification?

[NytWolf]

I'm not LE, but if a big mob is coming down the street, wouldn't firing into the crowd incite it even more? Even if I fired and struck a few people, wouldn't the rest of the crowd just damage my house anyway, as a result of my firing?

If the crowd is targeting my house anyway, I'm going to shoot, but I'm more afraid that whoever is left from the crowd will still do damage anyway.

[gorn5150]

The riot in the UK has some interesting details: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08...ioting-crisis/

How should an individual be expected to act (if armed) to a door-to-door invasion by these rioting youth? If there are 20-30 unarmed but violent youth coming down the street, and kicking in doors, it permissible to open fire on the invading crowd?

Also, Milwaukee has had rioting issues following the state fair this weekend: http://www.conservativerefocus.com/b...kee-state-fair

Same question; 200-300 Black youth went ballistic and targeted any white people they ran across. If my car is blocked off, and I have no exit (but I do have my trunk gun handy), is it permissible for a civilian to open fire into a crowd like this?
I only as ask the numbers seen in the two above examples show that social media and texting can spawn a flash mob to overwhelm the police; will a civilian be held accountable (if retreat is not an option) for firing into a violent, unreasonable crowd? Or is it reasonable that if a social breakdown of this magnitude is to occur, than firing into the crowd would be rendered moot in the preservation of life and order?

Don't get gun tunnel vision. The best defense you have in that situation is your car not a gun. If I was in that situation, and it doesn't matter to me what race the mob is, I would get out of the mob attack by driving through it. Worst that can happen is you get high centered on some half wit and have to resort to the gun.

[Tacit Blue]

The riot in the UK has some interesting details: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08...ioting-crisis/

How should an individual be expected to act (if armed) to a door-to-door invasion by these rioting youth? If there are 20-30 unarmed but violent youth coming down the street, and kicking in doors, it permissible to open fire on the invading crowd?

Also, Milwaukee has had rioting issues following the state fair this weekend: http://www.conservativerefocus.com/b...kee-state-fair

Same question; 200-300 Black youth went ballistic and targeted any white people they ran across. If my car is blocked off, and I have no exit (but I do have my trunk gun handy), is it permissible for a civilian to open fire into a crowd like this?

I only as ask the numbers seen in the two above examples show that social media and texting can spawn a flash mob to overwhelm the police; will a civilian be held accountable (if retreat is not an option) for firing into a violent, unreasonable crowd? Or is it reasonable that if a social breakdown of this magnitude is to occur, than firing into the crowd would be rendered moot in the preservation of life and order?

This sounds alot like Black Hawk Down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_1-Bb_KaDQ

[tyrist]

If you can run it would be advisable since 200-300 people are going to quickly overwhelm you. Just because you can legally use deadly force doesn't mean it's tactically the best option.