CCW policy for Reserves?

[snovvman]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

It appears that 832.6 PC grants a Level 1 (designated) Reserve to have 830.1 powers, which would lead me to interpret that they would enjoy 12031 exemption (department policy notwithstanding).

But nevermind that...

For Level 2 and 3s, who do require CCW, and in the case of LASD, I reiterate my original question:

Question:
IF a permit is granted, can one carry a weapon of his/her choice, or must one, as a Reserve, carry a weapon that is on the LASD "off-duty" approved list?

I ask because, were a civilian to receive a CCW, he/she may choose from a broad range of weapons available. For a full-time officer, he/she must carry one of the listed off-duty weapons. I just don't know how a Reserve off-duty with a CCW fits in. There are many more compact (LCP, Kel-Tec, etc.) choices that would be preferable carry options.

It is clear that a full-time Deputy must carry the Department authorized off-duty weapon to be in compliance with policy. If, a Reserve, allowed to carry under CCW (where the application of CCW was granted under "Reserve" rather than "Regular"), must they also carry a weapon off of the LASD list?

Also, reading the LEOSA, it would appear that active reserves (in addition to retired reserves by the amendment "separated") are covered by LEOSA, presuming they are issued a CCW. Am I correct?

Cheers.

[retired]

If, a Reserve, allowed to carry under CCW (where the application of CCW was granted under "Reserve" rather than "Regular"), must they also carry a weapon off of the LASD list?

As Ron said above, LASD requires you carry a firearm from their approved list. If you wish to remain a reserve with them, it would be best to stay with that list.

If you were involved in an incident and you were not carrying a dept. approved firearm, it wouldn't matter if the shooting was a good one. You wouldn't be a reserve anymore more than likely and when the lawsuit is filed (there will be one), the Dept. won't be there to help you.

[Ron-Solo]

To put it as briefly as possible, if the Department issues you a CCW based on your reserve status, you MUST carry a Departmentally authorized weapon.

And as far as level 1 goes, you still need a CCW because you don't meet the "full time, salaried" requirements to be exempt from 12025/12031 PC.

Reserves can be terminated at the discretion of the unit commander (Captain) and are not afforded any civil service protection. They serve at the discretion of the Sheriff.

That said, reserves fulfill a very valuable position and serve with honor and distinction.

[jerkyg]

Off-Duty Carry

Hi Solo,

I believe that the point of the appellate court addressed that point...and it was one of their main points...was that even department policy could not dictate what off-duty weapons were carried. And the judges made the point that the department did not have the authority to dictate what or what not they could carry. If you read the judgement...it is spelled out. I spoke with one of the head guys in the union of Orange County Union numerous times...and that was their whole point. It was not only a matter of the penal code. Or, what it said or did not say...but that no chief had that authority...regardless of department policy. They did not have a say in what an off-duty officer could carry.

Read the decision and tell me I am wrong. But, that is what the Union won in the judgement. And if you read it differently...I can clear it up by contacting my guy at Orange County Peace officer Union.

This decision had nothing to do with reserve officers.

Bottom line...I agree that Orange County basically said that they would not be liable for any use of a weapon in a fire fight...and wanted to remove themselves from any liability.

Stay safe...

Does not apply to reserves, who must have a CCW permit. They do not have a 12025/12031 pc exemption like a full time, salaried peace officer.

While a peace officer carrying an off duty gun not authorized by his/her department would not be violating law, they would be violating department policy and be subject to administrative disciplinary action. Additionally, the individual would open themselves up to civil liability and the department would leave you hung out to dry in civil court.

LASD requires you to carry a firearm from their approved list, and they are currently issuing the Beretta 92F as the standard issue firearm. They are issuing the Smith & Weson M&P 9mm on a test basis.

The minute I retired, I could carry anything I wanted, but I also lose that nice umbrella of protection provided by the Department.

[snovvman]

As Ron said above, LASD requires you carry a firearm from their approved list. If you wish to remain a reserve with them, it would be best to stay with that list.

To put it as briefly as possible, if the Department issues you a CCW based on your reserve status, you MUST carry a Departmentally authorized weapon.

That said, reserves fulfill a very valuable position and serve with honor and distinction.

Thank you Sirs. Will you please comment on a Reserve's qualification with LEOSA?

[Tallship]

Thank you Sirs. Will you please comment on a Reserve's qualification with LEOSA?

See my post #9 above.

[socalblue]

To put it as briefly as possible, if the Department issues you a CCW based on your reserve status, you MUST carry a Departmentally authorized weapon.

And as far as level 1 goes, you still need a CCW because you don't meet the "full time, salaried" requirements to be exempt from 12025/12031 PC.

Reserves can be terminated at the discretion of the unit commander (Captain) and are not afforded any civil service protection. They serve at the discretion of the Sheriff.

That said, reserves fulfill a very valuable position and serve with honor and distinction.

A Level-1(d) has full time authority & status & should be exempt from 12025/12031 PC. 12027(a)(1)(A) specifically lists 830.1 with no other qualifiers so that should mean Level-1(d) reserves.

[jerkyg]

ABILITY TO CARRY OFF-DUTY RESERVE

Howdy Socal,

I was a reserve over a quarter of century ago...yeah, I know...I am old. But, at that time I was a Level 1. And we could not carry off-duty. I knew of some departments that would require their reserves to even check their badge and ID when they left the department. We could not even get a CCW from our own Chief. They trusted us to carry on-duty, with a shotgun...but, not off...ridiculous. Other departments give automatic CCW's to their reserves...that makes sense.

Thus, unless there was a change to this in the penal code...you are not allowed to carry off-duty without a CCW.

Stay safe...

A Level-1(d) has full time authority & status & should be exempt from 12025/12031 PC. 12027(a)(1)(A) specifically lists 830.1 with no other qualifiers so that should mean Level-1(d) reserves.

[socalblue]

Howdy Socal,

I was a reserve over a quarter of century ago...yeah, I know...I am old. But, at that time I was a Level 1. And we could not carry off-duty. I knew of some departments that would require their reserves to even check their badge and ID when they left the department. We could not even get a CCW from our own Chief. They trusted us to carry on-duty, with a shotgun...but, not off...ridiculous. Other departments give automatic CCW's to their reserves...that makes sense.

Thus, unless there was a change to this in the penal code...you are not allowed to carry off-duty without a CCW.

Stay safe...

I'm that old too :-) (Got my 1st badge in 1981). I should have been more specific in my reply to Ron in that the 12027 PC states "Full time, salaried" ONLY for out of state LEOS.

[jerkyg]

RESERVE CARRY

Ok SoCal,

You got me on being old...got mine in '83...so, yes you are old...LOL!!!

Stay safe...

[Jared1981]

Even tho retired from LASD, I'd have to agree with CaliTheKid as that was the policy when I was on and I can't imagine it changing tho the particular guns have. Both active and retired were restricted to the same listed weapons for off duty use.

That is why when I was free from those rules, I retired my S&W Model 60 post haste and bought my XD subcompact 9mm.

Remember that they have no say over LEOSA. If you qualify with a semi-auto pistol, you can carry any semi-auto pistol under LEOSA.

If LASD gives you guys a hard time, I would just recertify every 5 years for your CA carry card and for LEOSA, I would qualify under any department that is friendly.

I would say a department is friendly when they let you qualify with a semi-auto pistol, revolver, shotgun, and a semi-auto rifle.

[45Rimless-Smokeless]

Retired Reserve Carry

Well, as to old timers, I was sworn in 1971, and did 30 as a Level 1d patrol reserve.

In the case of my department, they are still "formulating policy" with regard to the modified Federal law, and will presently not allow one year qualifications for former reserves. Since the law does not specify that the qualification be done at a specific agency, does anyone know of one who will do the qualification in the Southern California area?

[jerkyg]

RESERVE CARRY

45...

I just got out of my wheel chair....thank you for your service. And I thought I was old...LOL...you are my idol. Most of the "OG's"...Old Guys for you youngsters...are people you need to listen to...I still do.

Stay safe....

Well, as to old timers, I was sworn in 1971, and did 30 as a Level 1d patrol reserve.

In the case of my department, they are still "formulating policy" with regard to the modified Federal law, and will presently not allow one year qualifications for former reserves. Since the law does not specify that the qualification be done at a specific agency, does anyone know of one who will do the qualification in the Southern California area?

[snovvman]

I speak to retired LASD Deputies often, and I am always awed by their experiences and wisdom. It is not easy being an LEO, even from the moment of the application, through the background and the Academy. It takes a special kind. The public simply does not understand or cannot relate. Either way, I know it is often a thankless job. Thank you for your service.