High capacity mags?

[TheKlawMan]

LMAO at this nonsense about importing rebuild kits that are assembled by a ninja LEO who mysteriously crawls in a rear window in the dark of night to assembles them and the owner of those mags doesn't think he is going to be prosecuted.

[RollingCode3]

If you hang around this forum a lot, you will figure out who is breaking the law and bragging about it. Most of the older members here dont care about hicap mags. After the Arizona incident, i read a lot of threads about people stocking up on hicap rebuild kits. A few days later, I see they post their gun pictures with a bunch of hicap mags in the background. Just look at the Marketplace section. You will see listing like this "Ruger sr9/ m&p/xd" ( These models didnt exist before the ban)... comes with 2 ten rounders and 3 rebuild kits. But when you look at the pictures, you dont see any rebuild kits but only magazines. And these members are not LEO's.

People are posting threads and trying to justify going out to get hicap mags. If you're going to mess with hicap mags.... Please know the legality of your action and stop bragging on a public forum. It makes all gun owners and calgunners look bad.

[AdamHenry]

How about another hypothetical. Your father was a LEO and has preban hi caps for his non duty weapon. In the event of his death, what becomes of the hicaps? I'm not clear on inter-family tranfers of weapons anyway so I don't know if it falls under some exemption or under "no transfer"

[mej16489]

So basically your saying in my case. If an LEO handed me a MP15-22 30 round magazine.. I would then legally posses it. Since i didn't import it or build it fro a kit could i then use it in my gun with no worries, even though the gun was made way after the ban?

Posession is not a crime - However the LEO just committed a crime by giving them to you.

[em9sredbeam]

If you hang around this forum a lot, you will figure out who is breaking the law and bragging about it. Most of the older members here dont care about hicap mags. After the Arizona incident, i read a lot of threads about people stocking up on hicap rebuild kits. A few days later, I see they post their gun pictures with a bunch of hicap mags in the background. Just look at the Marketplace section. You will see listing like this "Ruger sr9/ m&p/xd" ( These models didnt exist before the ban)... comes with 2 ten rounders and 3 rebuild kits. But when you look at the pictures, you dont see any rebuild kits but only magazines. And these members are not LEO's.

People are posting threads and trying to justify going out to get hicap mags. If you're going to mess with hicap mags.... Please know the legality of your action and stop bragging on a public forum. It makes all gun owners and calgunners look bad.

Note, not trying to brag about possibly having kits, just want to know information on it. I don't give a damn about the 5 or so extra rounds, becuase if you cant do the job with 10, you shouldn't own a gun. I just grew up around real legitimate high cap mags on assault rifles, and its fun when you are out shooting targets and what not with no rapid fire rules, But not if it gets you arrested. So I was asking for realistic information.

[k9noid]

Most high cap mags have date codes on them, if you not a LEo and have one you may have some explaining to do. If your Mag does not have a date code then it becomes difficult to say when you were in possession of it. Prior to 2000 you were ok, and it is still ok to have that mag....thats how I understand it, but if you know different I would like to hear it. My 2cents.

[IrishPirate]

Most high cap mags have date codes on them, if you not a LEo and have one you may have some explaining to do. If your Mag does not have a date code then it becomes difficult to say when you were in possession of it. Prior to 2000 you were ok, and it is still ok to have that mag....thats how I understand it, but if you know different I would like to hear it. My 2cents.

none of my many many MANY hi-caps have any date codes on them. NONE. ZIP. ZERO.

Possession of Hi-caps is not a crime. anyone who is alive today can be in possession of a hi-cap. Even a 2 year old can be in possession. Possession is not something you can be charged with. POSSESSION IS NOT A CRIME. Manufacturing, Importing, Selling, Keeping for sale, Lending (without being in the immediate vicinity), and Giving are all illegal. Those are what you would be charged with if the state could prove that you did one of those.

You do not have to be 21 to be in possession of hi-caps, you do not have to have owned them before 2000 to be in possession of hi-caps, and you do not need to have any proof whatsoever that shows how/where/when you came into possession of any hi-caps.

Yes it is stupid to play with any grey areas, but it is much stupider to not fully understand the law. You cannot be charged with possession, and you do not have to prove how you came into possession, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR AGE!!! Burden of proof is on the state....why make it easier for them to nail you by saying ANYTHING!!??!!??!!??

[Sniper3142]

Most high cap mags have date codes on them, if you not a LEo and have one you may have some explaining to do. If your Mag does not have a date code then it becomes difficult to say when you were in possession of it. Prior to 2000 you were ok, and it is still ok to have that mag....thats how I understand it, but if you know different I would like to hear it. My 2cents.

Date Codes mean NOTHING.

I have LOTS of old 30 round USGI metal mags that have been TOTALLY rebuilt with Magpul Pmags parts.

To the uninformed observer, they look like brand new mags.... and that is FINE!!

Possession is Legal, regardless of how "new" the magazine looks. And no, I'm not worried in the least about explaining that to anyone.

[Cokebottle]

Most likely you will go to jail if you are found with a Hi Capacity Mag

This is complete, 100% BS and FUD.

Please stop perpetuating this myth.

Possession and use are not crimes unless the high-cap is used in a fixed-magazine semiautomatic gun.

[Cokebottle]

NAPAPLINKER did you even read the guy's Post? He is 21 years old.

Doesn't matter.

For a conviction, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the "suspect" either imported or assembled the magazine within the last 36 months.

There is a 36 month statute of limitations.
For someone in possession, the only possible crimes are importation or manufacture, unless the person is caught attempting to sell one.

With no paper trail, such as credit card transactions, bank statements, etc... it's going to be virtually impossible for the state to prove it's case.


If you are caught with a high cap and are "most likely going to jail", please provide us with a list of people who have been charged and convicted under high-cap laws that were not also charged for possession of an unregistered assault weapon, straw purchase, or some other felony.

Here's a hint... you CAN'T provide those cites because it hasn't happened.

[Cokebottle]

Most high cap mags have date codes on them

No they don't.

I have 12 AR 30 round bodies. 6 are still rebuild kits, and I converted the other 6 into 10/30 mags.
No date code anywhere on the body, floorplate, or follower.
I also have two XD9 16rd rebuild kits, and 8 XD9 10 rounders.
Again, no date code on any of the components.

[MacOtac]

Doesn't matter.

For a conviction, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the "suspect" either imported or assembled the magazine within the last 36 months.

There is a 36 month statute of limitations.
For someone in possession, the only possible crimes are importation or manufacture, unless the person is caught attempting to sell one.

With no paper trail, such as credit card transactions, bank statements, etc... it's going to be virtually impossible for the state to prove it's case.


If you are caught with a high cap and are "most likely going to jail", please provide us with a list of people who have been charged and convicted under high-cap laws that were not also charged for possession of an unregistered assault weapon, straw purchase, or some other felony.

Here's a hint... you CAN'T provide those cites because it hasn't happened.

OK OK... I get it POSSESSION is not illegal! They have to prove you manufactured or imported the so called Hi Cap Mag you are blasting away with when they question you... That makes sense when blasting away with a weapon that uses high cap mags pre ban date 2000 and earlier.... But I would not be caught dead blasting away with a high cap mag say in a new S&W M&P or any other type of weapon that only specifically has a high cap mag made for it after pre-ban.... That is what need to be addressed... Clearly in a court of law you either imported, manufactured, or purchased a high cap mag after the ban, because last time I checked they do not grow on trees!

[Cokebottle]

Mag you are blasting away with when they question you.

5A.

Unless they arrest you, all you need to say is "Thank you for your concern, but I am legal"
If they do arrest you, then say nothing to anyone except your attorney.

Now, your attorney needs to know the 100% absolute truth. If you assembled some rebuild kits 6 months ago, he needs to know that.
If you brought them in from a gun show in Arizona in 2006, he needs to know that.

Surprises for YOUR attorney are not a good thing in court. If you are not 100% honest with your attorney, and the prosecutor happens to figure out part of a hole in your story, it is not going to go well for you.

.. That makes sense when blasting away with a weapon that uses high cap mags pre ban date 2000 and earlier.... But I would not be caught dead blasting away with a high cap mag say in a new S&W M&P or any other type of weapon that only specifically has a high cap mag made for

Still a non-issue.
36 month statute of limitations.

The important difference is a magazine imported or assembled after the ban, but outside the statute of limitations was not "legally possessed within California prior to January 1, 2000", therefore, taking that magazine out of state and bringing it back home would re-start the SoL clock with a new act of importation.

Clearly in a court of law you either imported, manufactured, or purchased a high cap mag after the ban, because last time I checked they do not grow on trees!

Purchasing is not illegal.

PC12020(a)(2)Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

If I were to walk over to your house and hand you a 30 round AK magazine, you are 100% legal. I would be guilty of "giving" or "lending", but you would have committed no crime in accepting them from me.

[Sniper3142]

OK OK... I get it POSSESSION is not illegal! They have to prove you manufactured or imported the so called Hi Cap Mag you are blasting away with when they question you... That makes sense when blasting away with a weapon that uses high cap mags pre ban date 2000 and earlier.... But I would not be caught dead blasting away with a high cap mag say in a new S&W M&P or any other type of weapon that only specifically has a high cap mag made for it after pre-ban.... That is what need to be addressed... Clearly in a court of law you either imported, manufactured, or purchased a high cap mag after the ban, because last time I checked they do not grow on trees!

You could have FOUND it.

Unlikely, I know. But still possible and LEGAL under the law. Unless they can PROVE that you either, imported, manufactured, sold, offered for sale, or gave that Large Capacity Magazine, you are fine.

Most people talk themselves into cuffs and/or jail.

[Cokebottle]

Most people talk themselves into cuffs and/or jail.

Bingo.

And BTW: I am neither recommending nor condoning breaking California's high-cap law.
If you noticed, I referenced 8 rebuild kits that I have, and they are and will remain as such unless and until the high cap law is overturned. I have them for use out of state. Leave CA, assemble, enjoy shooting in a free state, disassemble, and bring them home.

I got the XD kits early in '07. I could have assembled them when I got them, and today admit that I did so, and still be immune from prosecution, but I didn't and won't.


But there is so much FUD and FAIL thrown out about "if you use a high cap you are going to jail" that it has to be discussed.

An illegally-possessed magazine is, without a paper trail, virtually impossible to distinguish from a legally possessed magazine.

Date codes mean nothing.
All the date code means is that you could not possibly have assembled that particular magazine assembly prior to that date.
You could have legally imported a pre-ban parts kit and illegally assembled it yesterday.
You could have legally imported a 2011 parts kit and legally used it to rebuild a legal 1992 magazine that is worn out.