Registration Issues???

[LDBennett]

I had a target pistol (on the Olympic exemption list for CA) repaired recently and the serialized frame was replaced with a new one with a new serial number. The manufacturer kept the original bad frame and gave me a repair order with an indication that the old frame was changed and what the new number is and what the old number was. The gun was returned to me directly.

What has to be done to get the records straight in Sacramento; i.e., the old frame is with the manufacturer (in his FFL books, I presume) and the new frame as part of a complete gun is with me. This is a simple records change and I would think no new DROS is necessary. They got my money once on this gun! I am looking for legal answers to this.

On another gun registration issue, I gave the local police a trashed gun which they say they will destroy. I filled out all the paper work to get the gun off my registration and it came back that the gun was unfound in the system. The gun was purchased from an FFL dealer/gun store in the late 1980's and registered to me at that time. I gave the gun to my son and we may have changed the registration to his name. I just don't remember nor does he. When they do a search do they do it under my name or the serial number of the gun? I am concerned that the gun is still registered perhaps not to me but to my son. How can we find out? Are registration records purged after so may years or what?

[r3dn3ck]

once you gave it to the cops you washed your hands of it. I'll assume you got some sort of receipt for the turn-in.

As far as the serialization... no idea how this could be an issue. You have a repair order which shows both serials I'll imagine. So, even if you do get "asked", 1 it's not an UAW because it's not an AW and 2, it's not listed as stolen so you're good to go even if the fuzz "runs" your iron. It's not illegal to possess someone elses non-AW handgun as long as it's not hot.

[r3dn3ck]

double post...

[Notorious]

once you gave it to the cops you washed your hands of it. I'll assume you got some sort of receipt for the turn-in.

As far as the serialization... no idea how this could be an issue. You have a repair order which shows both serials I'll imagine. So, even if you do get "asked", 1 it's not an UAW because it's not an AW and 2, it's not listed as stolen so you're good to go even if the fuzz "runs" your iron. It's not illegal to possess someone elses non-AW handgun as long as it's not hot.

It is illegal if you don't have a HSC and you pass the 30 day mark for loans because then it becomes an illegal transfer.

[LDBennett]

Notorious:

What is a HSC? I'm not familiar with the initals. To get it does it require a new DROS with the cost associated and the handgun test certification card?

If so this is stupid as I purchased the gun once and jumped through all the hoops once and paid the fees once. This should be a record change only. I have a repair order that shows the repair and the new frame number is identified.

[Librarian]

HSC is Handgun Safety Certificate - the same as the 'handgun test certification card'.

[yzErnie]

Technically, the new frame (and serial #) should have been shipped to an FFL for the DROS. Most times when a manfacturer needs to replace a frame on a gun or has to replace the entire gun they will ship it an FFL of the owners choice and pay for the new DROS of the gun.

[Jonathan Doe]

I had a rifle that had nothing but problems many years ago. I sent it back to the company, and they sent me a replacement rifle with a different serial number to my door.

[ironcross]

I gave the gun to my son and we may have changed the registration to his name. I just don't remember nor does he. When they do a search do they do it under my name or the serial number of the gun? I am concerned that the gun is still registered perhaps not to me but to my son. How can we find out? Are registration records purged after so may years or what?

You both could always fill this out and send it in.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AFSPrivateCitizen.pdf

I had a rifle that had nothing but problems many years ago. I sent it back to the company, and they sent me a replacement rifle with a different serial number to my door.

IIRC: If issued a new serial number for the lower half of a rifle (IE: AR Lower) and or pistol. That it had to go through DROS again due to it's a 'new' weapon for you. Why some firearm company's will keep the same serial to better serve you (for us in CA/Waiting period State's).

[CSACANNONEER]

So, you bought a handgun from an FFL in the 80's and you're surprised that it isn't in the system which was set up in 1991???? You had a perfectly legal unregistered handgun.

As far as the new frame goes, I believe that it was supposed to be DROSed to you, by a CA FFL as a new handgun.

[LDBennett]

CSACANNONEER:

So what happened to the data base that existed before then? Handguns were required to be before 1991. Registration implies a record of who owns what handgun. So they installed a new system and threw out all the registrations before 1991? It doesn't make sense (???).

I specifically checked with the manufacturer about this repair as it was evident before the gun left me that a new frame was necessary. He indicated that going through a FFL dealer was not required in his understanding and experience (he could be wrong but I raised the issue with him and we did what he thought to be correct). There was no transfer of ownership but a repair of an existing gun. I do not see the justification for a new DROS. I already own the gun and part of it was changed out. The records just need updating. But hey, it's California where common sense is thrown out the window and the crazies are in control.

[CSACANNONEER]

Before 1991, the state did not keep a "registration" data base for handgun transactions.

[LDBennett]

CSACANNONEER:

Then what was the point of registration back then? I think they had a manual system based on the following story:

My friend bought and sold a handgun back in the 1960's. About 20 years later the police showed up at his door asking about that gun as it had been used in a crime long after he sold it. How did they know him to be the registered owner? They had a registration system and it may not have been computerized but it existed.

If the state dumped all that early data then they compromise the whole of the registration idea. Believe me when I say there were a lot of guns sold before 1991 that may get used in crimes. If the registration system stops at 1991 then it is useless (As I already knew it was as criminals are not about to register a gun they bought on the street that was stolen). But hey, it will not be the first time the State of CA has done stupid things when it comes to firearms.

[CSACANNONEER]

CSACANNONEER:

Then what was the point of registration back then? I think they had a manual system based on the following story:

My friend bought and sold a handgun back in the 1960's. About 20 years later the police showed up at his door asking about that gun as it had been used in a crime long after he sold it. How did they know him to be the registered owner? They had a registration system and it may not have been computerized but it existed.

If the state dumped all that early data then they compromise the whole of the registration idea. Believe me when I say there were a lot of guns sold before 1991 that may get used in crimes. If the registration system stops at 1991 then it is useless (As I already knew it was as criminals are not about to register a gun they bought on the street that was stolen). But hey, it will not be the first time the State of CA has done stupid things when it comes to firearms.

There wasn't "registration" back then. Your friend's gun was probably traced to him by going from the manufacturer to the distributer to the FFL who sold him the gun and then, by looking at the 4473, they found that he had purchased it. He was not the "registered owner" just the last person that they could find any record of transfering it to. If he had told them that he sold it to John Doe, they would have showed up at John Doe's door and asked John Doe about the gun he legally bought without any paperwork.

[Librarian]

California's DROS system dates from 1924. Any handgun sales that went through CA-licensed dealers were reported to DOJ from that date.

The requirement to use it, however, was not imposed on all sales until 1991. Some part of the manual transactions has been entered into the data base, but I don't know how much.