OFF DUTY

[ap3572001]

I don't have a CCW . Just pack off duty all the time.
Letting them rob the place ? Ok.
So the way You see it, SELF DEFENSE is ONLY when I am under attack. Right?
Is that how You see it?

[swat]

I don't have a CCW . Just pack off duty all the time.
Letting them rob the place ? Ok.
So the way You see it, SELF DEFENSE is ONLY when I am under attack. Right?
Is that how You see it?

Yikes!!!! Please don't tell me you are a LEO!!!

[Bryan16]

I was taught to be a good witness. I don't know who else might be inside working with him or who might be outside waiting. But it all depends on the situation! If shots are being fired and/or people are getting hurt that changes everything. What is the one thing we are taught in the academy more than anything? Officer safety! Do you think you could take on multiple gunmen by yourself without safety equipment? Like I said, you don't know for sure who else might be involved. You might not have seen the other guy run in the back room while you were checking your text messages. This is also where tunnel vision can get you killed. But, you do what you have to do only if you HAVE to! Don't create a new situation if you don't have to.

Most guys I know carry the LCP or some other small weapon. Most of them can barely qualify with them at close range. I'd hate to see how they do at long range under adrenaline and with only 6 or 7 shots! What if you missed and hit someone else? Is your department going to back you for your actions off-duty?

[Watchur6]

The way I see it is I have no "S" on my chest or a cape on my back. I carry for self protection because inmates don't stay inmates forever. As far as a 211 in progress in my presence, they can have the money. Once that barrel turns to me or my loved one then its go time. At that point he left me without an option. I pray I never have to use my firearm to kill somebody. Im very good at detailed descriptions:-)

[headshrinker]

I understand now, thanks for the explanation. In California, LE has discretionary powers and are under no obligation to take action.

[SoCalDep]

I understand now, thanks for the explanation. In California, LE has discretionary powers and are under no obligation to take action.

That is a false statement. It also oversimplifies the complexities involved in carrying a firearm for self defense or the defense of others.

I know of an officer who, while off duty, engaged an armed robber. A nine year old girl died in that gun battle. Had he simply let the robber leave, she may still be alive. I won't judge his actions, as he did the best he could with the knowledge he had...But as your post above exemplifies, a little bit of knowledge can do much damage.

[Captain Neon]

I would think the off duty LEO would observe the crime and report everything he saw and heard to the LEOs responding at the crime scene. Police are trained observers, right? As in taking detailed observations of bad guys? Perhaps even secure the scene after the BGs leave to make sure evidence isn't disturbed?

That hardly counts as 'take no action', he or she is going to take steps to assist the officers who are on duty. It does count as 'do not endanger yourself and others', though.

[mikehtiger]

I can answer this! This happened to me back in September...

I was getting a soda at a chevron on my way into work, My Kel-Tec P11 in a pocket holster on my right side. All of a sudden three kids run into the store, one of whom was carrying a handgun. Two of them surrounded me and one ran to the back. The kid in front of me had a gun and pointed it at the clerk (to my right).

They then pointed the gun at me. I ended up losing my wallet and cell phone. I didn't give it to them but they took it. Had my hand on my gun but didn't pull it out. I figured I'd rather lose the $35 admin fee for my new CDL, $4 in cash, and my $200 phone than my life...

[bobfried]

I don't have a CCW . Just pack off duty all the time.
Letting them rob the place ? Ok.
So the way You see it, SELF DEFENSE is ONLY when I am under attack. Right?
Is that how You see it?

How do you claim SELF defense when you were not personally involved a defensive situation?

If I was not being threatened with deadly force or grave bodily injury directly nor am I being robbed than how is that I am deprived of anything?

[retired]

Years ago there was a local leo (I do not care to name him or his agency, some here will know of the incident and I hope they follow suit as it really isn't important to the main subject here.), who came to the defense of a disabled box boy who was being pistol whipped by a 211 suspect. The off duty leo, who was standing in line to check out, announced that he was a leo as he drew his gun and pointed it at the suspect.

Unknown to the officer, armed robber #2 was standing in line right behind him (officer) as a lookout. He didn't announce himself; he just shot the officer. The robbers got away and the officer died at the hospital.

It is a decision every off duty officer has to make and hopefully for all involved, the right one is made.

[Ron-Solo]

Yikes!!!! Please don't tell me you are a LEO!!!

I was thinking that too..................

[Bryan16]

While on-duty, I always run scenarios with my partners just so we know how we would each respond. It's probably just as good to think about what you would do in off-duty situations as well. I guess I can't help it. I'm always thinking about my situational-awareness. Who's sitting in the tables next to me, where are the exits, looking for eyes that keep looking in my direction, is that a huelga bird on that guy's arm, etc. I get so bad I refuse to sit at a table in the middle of a restaurant when I eat out. I wait for a wall seat or booth.

[Cpl. Haas]

Here's a pretty brutal video showing just how dengerous getting involved in an armed robbery can be while off-duty:

Video Link

Starting at the 1:13 mark...

- You see the off-duty officer (black jacket) notices the two 211 suspects approaching the business from the bottom of the video.

- Officer walks out into the street and starts to draw his weapon.

- Unseen 3rd suspect approaching from the top of the screen shoots the off-duty officer 8 times (According to the video description).

Had the off-duty officer taken no action and acted as a witness only, would there have still been shots fired? Maybe... maybe not.

[BoJackUSMC]

While on-duty, I always run scenarios with my partners just so we know how we would each respond. It's probably just as good to think about what you would do in off-duty situations as well. I guess I can't help it. I'm always thinking about my situational-awareness. Who's sitting in the tables next to me, where are the exits, looking for eyes that keep looking in my direction, is that a huelga bird on that guy's arm, etc. I get so bad I refuse to sit at a table in the middle of a restaurant when I eat out. I wait for a wall seat or booth.

lol, I thought it was just me. Every time I go out to eat, I always check the restroom first. All my friends think, I go to the restroom to wash my hands before I eat, but thats not the case. I go to restroom to check the size of the window. In case, I might have to use those windows to escape. Also, on the way to restroom, I always look for employee back door exit for second escape route. I used to sit only in the wall seat or booth until my friends keep complaining how they had to wait for open wall seat when there are other non wall seat tables open.

[Watchur6]

I always scan the room, restaurant or buisness as I enter. There have been times when I've walked in and immediately walked out. My gf says I am being ridiculous, paranoid or judgemental. I laugh and say that'll save my life one day. Situational awareness goes a long way. Im glad to hear that im not the only one that lives this way. I was feeling like I was the only person doing stuff like this. Stay safe ppl, watchur6.