Disposing of junk gun frame??

[TrailerparkTrash]

You can turn them in to your local police for destruction, get receipt, and fill out the "no longer in possession" form with DOJ. You can also try one of the gun buy backs and get a gift card out of it too.

The gun buy back program is great if you have a junk gun. Otherwise, use a cutting torch, plasma cutter, chop saw, sawzall or whatever. Then just toss out the pieces.

Any gun not run through AWS in Ca after 20 or 25 years IIRC is purged out of the system anyway. If your serial number was run just once, the clock starts all over again.

It's no big deal if you "throw out" your now destroyed gun. It's not against the law and it's no bid deal to have the serial number in the system still.

[LDBennett]

Here's how the Tangfolio TZ75 ended up:

I called the local police and they sent an officer to pick it up. The first problem was that he could not give me a receipt, only a report number. The CA DOJ form wanted his signature which his office said he could not give. So I sent in the form to take the gun and me out of the registered gun list without the signature the CA DOJ insisted should be there. When the COP picked up the gun frame and slide he attempted to run the gun but got nothing back. So the gun went with the COP and I got a report number. The form was mailed off to the CA DOJ.

After a couple weeks I got a letter from the CA DOJ that said they had no record of the gun being registered which is really strange. I bought the gun from a legitimate gun store and it was registered at that time through them, 23 years ago.

Do guns registered in CA fall into the ethers at some point in time or is the registration data kept forever?

So I worried about destroying this gun for naught. My efforts were wasted.

For those of you that thought it should be repaired, I will tell you that there was something wrong with the metallurgy of that gun that might have made it unsafe. The plate that fits into groves in the slide to retain the firing pin literally pushed the metal of that grove away and the plate came off and the firing pin fell out. Metal so soft as to not be able to absorb the firing pin spring or even the force of the firing pin pushed back by the pressures inside the cartridge primer is not good enough to make a pistol out of. I would never pawn this gun to any buyer nor would I ever shoot it again. It was nothing but junk.

As for a buy back program, in the 13 years I have lived in my area there has NEVER been a buy back program.

So the TZ75 frame and slide are gone and good riddance. I have in the intervening years purchased two real CZ's and love them. 23 years ago CZ could not be purchased here in the USA as Communist country's goods were embargoed in the USA

LDBennett

[AJAX22]

Gahhhhhh

Now I'm depressed

she could have been saved.



sad panda

[LDBennett]

AJAX22:

Don't be depressed. Some times you have to put down animals and guns because they no longer function as they are suppose to. The TZ75 went to better world.

With the wrong metallurgy this one was not savable. With two real CZ's and a much newer Tangfolio (EAA witness) to replace it I am now ahead of the game. The Witness does not suffer the bad metallurgy problem at all. Tangfolio must have learned something along the way.

LDBennett

[AJAX22]

It isn't the metal composition typically, it is the heat treatment.

using a proper heat treating ovan it can be annealed and then properly tempered.

Its just a matter of bringing it to the right temperature for the right length of time, then controlling the cooling process.

The metal is no different.

[LDBennett]

There are great differences between alloys of steel. The constituent that makes an alloy able to be hardened is its carbon content. It varies from 0.1 to 2 %. In addition other elements are added as well, like manganese, chromium, vanadium, and tungsten. Not all ferrous metals are able to be hardened. They need carbon in their mix. The more carbon the harder the metal can get, up to a limit of about 2% carbon. When there is more than 2% is is called cast iron.

The ultimate strength of the steel is what determines how rugged it is. I think Tangfolio used the wrong alloy and/or didn't hardened it. Hardening it would not be necessary if the right alloy was used.

Hardening is bringing the metal to full hardness by heating it close to its melting point then quickly cooling it in water or oil, depending on the alloy. After it is cooled it is heated up to a much lower temperature to "pull" the harness to a usable state, followed by air cooling.

There are standard alloys of steel used in firearms today that were not even invented until after WWII. I think Tangfolio failed to use one of those alloys in my TZ75.

What tremendous force exists when you fire a gun that would make the firing pin push metal out of a grove in the rear of the slide. None that I can think of so the metal must have been a pretty low grade alloy.

For more info on Steel see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel

LDBennett

[AJAX22]

There are great differences between alloys of steel. The constituent that makes an alloy able to be hardened is its carbon content. It varies from 0.1 to 2 %. In addition other elements are added as well, like manganese, chromium, vanadium, and tungsten. Not all ferrous metals are able to be hardened. They need carbon in their mix. The more carbon the harder the metal can get, up to a limit of about 2% carbon. When there is more than 2% is is called cast iron.

The ultimate strength of the steel is what determines how rugged it is. I think Tangfolio used the wrong alloy and/or didn't hardened it. Hardening it would not be necessary if the right alloy was used.

Hardening is bringing the metal to full hardness by heating it close to its melting point then quickly cooling it in water or oil, depending on the alloy. After it is cooled it is heated up to a much lower temperature to "pull" the harness to a usable state, followed by air cooling.

There are standard alloys of steel used in firearms today that were not even invented until after WWII. I think Tangfolio failed to use one of those alloys in my TZ75.

What tremendous force exists when you fire a gun that would make the firing pin push metal out of a grove in the rear of the slide. None that I can think of so the metal must have been a pretty low grade alloy.

For more info on Steel see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel

LDBennett

I understand how it works (I did quite well in my materials classes at Cal Poly) even if they did kick me out later for unrelated issues

The way the firearms are made is by purchasing a softer mild steel (to reduce wear on tooling and make it easier to machine) which is then subjected to machine processes, and then later heat treated (sometimes in a carbon rich environment to case harden the metal.)

The firing pin is typically the hardest piece of metal on the gun (which is why they are so prone to breaking) and its quite conceivable that if they screwed up the heat treating the difference would allow the firing pin to cut a channel in the softer metal.

In my opinion it is much more likely that a manufacturer will screw up the heat treating than the alloy selection

anyway, its moot now

[LDBennett]

But the problem was the firing pin hit the firing pin retaining plate and eventually the plate pushed the metal of the grove in the slide. In a well made gun I can not imagine what caused the firing pin to slam into the retaining plate. I can only assume that normal recoil forces were in operation and the slide materials were way too soft. Perhaps this slide missed its hardening, as you suggest.

When I side lined this gun many years ago FIE was out of business and there were no spares. I bought the Witness many years later and then two CZ's and the Kadet 22 conversion. The cost to fix the FIE Tanfoglio today would be more than the gun is worth. Besides I now have three guns that look and function like the TZ75. Trashing the gun was the smart thing to do, in my opinion. Trying to get me off the registered gun list for that gun was all that I was after and it turned out the records were lost by the state.

What you say is true (soft metal, machine, heat treat then temper) but heat treating often distorts the part so for a precision part like the slide it might be better to use a better alloy that does not need heat treating.

LDBennett

[AJAX22]

But the problem was the firing pin hit the firing pin retaining plate and eventually the plate pushed the metal of the grove in the slide. In a well made gun I can not imagine what caused the firing pin to slam into the retaining plate. I can only assume that normal recoil forces were in operation and the slide materials were way too soft. Perhaps this slide missed its hardening, as you suggest.

When I side lined this gun many years ago FIE was out of business and there were no spares. I bought the Witness many years later and then two CZ's and the Kadet 22 conversion. The cost to fix the FIE Tanfoglio today would be more than the gun is worth. Besides I now have three guns that look and function like the TZ75. Trashing the gun was the smart thing to do, in my opinion. Trying to get me off the registered gun list for that gun was all that I was after and it turned out the records were lost by the state.

What you say is true (soft metal, machine, heat treat then temper) but heat treating often distorts the part so for a precision part like the slide it might be better to use a better alloy that does not need heat treating.

LDBennett

they could have definitly done things better, I know a guy who was working for them when they were importing those guns.... he has a VERY funny story about the display guns they had.... apparently the display guns were early ones that they had pulled the firing pins out of to have them at shows. And when they needed to demonstrate them for a large customer), they grabbed new firing pins to replace the missing ones...

which would have worked if the pins hadn't changed spec, (the new ones were longer, but still fit in the hole)

which resulted in a bit of a surprise for the customers they were demonstrating them for... BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP

And I understand that it would not have been cost effective, (not trying to make you feel bad or anyting)

I just see a problem like this as an opportunity to have an interesting project.
(its almost a character flaw with me)

I like to fix things and I very much dislike the idea of decreasing the number of guns held by Americans... even by one.

[johnny_22]

Horay!

I understand how it works (I did quite well in my materials classes at Cal Poly) even if they did kick me out later for unrelated issues

Glad I am not the only person who remembers the Materials Engineering Class. I had so much fun in that class (SJSU). Weirdly, the other engineers at work here don't remember taking that class.

[LDBennett]

I took the materials class twice. The University where I finished my degree did not transfer my junior college materials class credits (the only ones I lost in the transfer) so I had to take it at the junior level. Both version were good.

LDBennett