UOC under jackets?

[kpinole]

Hello Calguns LEO's,

As far as I understand, you are allowed to UOC in CA and carry a loaded mag separately on your person as well. Please correct me if this is wrong.

When UOC'ing, and you are wearing a suit jacket or one of those "security" guard jackets, the unloaded gun may at times become hidden under the jacket. Does this now become an illegal CCW? TIA for your responses.

[Uriah02]

It must be out in the open. If it appears to be concealed then you are in trouble. If you wear apparel that flirts with this line, I cannot see a positive ending if you get called out about.

[Papa "J"]

UOC means UOC. Anytime it is hidden it is illegal.

If your going to UOC I would suggest you make sure your wearing the proper clothing.

[kpinole]

Thanks for the quick replies. So when I decide to go out on a public street, if I hold my jacket open in a way that the unloaded holstered gun is clearly visible....I'm OK?

[Papa "J"]

Thanks for the quick replies. So when I decide to go out on a public street, if I hold my jacket open in a way that the unloaded holstered gun is clearly visible....I'm OK?

I would suggest no jacket. But i am not an attorney.

If you are going to step on the line of the law I suggest you don't complaint about the concquences.

If you want to UOC, do it so there are absolutly no misunderstandings. If your just trying to push an issue and cause attention to yourself please don't, there are too many people trying to fight for 2A the correct way.

[yzErnie]

Thanks for the quick replies. So when I decide to go out on a public street, if I hold my jacket open in a way that the unloaded holstered gun is clearly visible....I'm OK?

No matter how hard you try, at some point while you are holding the jacket open you will lapse and the jacket will cover up the UOC and then you are into the red area. As has been said, why flirt with disaster?

[capo]

Thanks for the quick replies. So when I decide to go out on a public street, if I hold my jacket open in a way that the unloaded holstered gun is clearly visible....I'm OK?

Bad idea. Leave the jacket at home, period, end of story. I can see someone calling the police saying you are brandishing a firearm if you are purposely holding your jacket open so that people can obviously see it.

Better yet, just don't UOC at all.

[kpinole]

I'm not asking these q's so that I can UOC on a regular basis.....I don't like to bring attention to myself. There are times I must visit friends and family in bad parts of town, where there's little parking and often people, ladies, and/or families need to be escorted to their car...think "safety in numbers". I always carry pepper spray, and sometimes a small foldable pocket knife. These days, folks are getting robbed at gunpoint in their driveways just coming home from work. At times, we must think safety first, legal consequences after. All replies are appreciated. Thanks.

[kpinole]

Bad idea. Leave the jacket at home, period, end of story.

Point taken...it just gets a little chilly at night! I guess that's where a sweater would be a good idea.

[jtmkinsd]

I'm not asking these q's so that I can UOC on a regular basis.....I don't like to bring attention to myself. There are times I must visit friends and family in bad parts of town, where there's little parking and often people, ladies, and/or families need to be escorted to their car...think "safety in numbers". I always carry pepper spray, and sometimes a small foldable pocket knife. These days, folks are getting robbed at gunpoint in their driveways just coming home from work. At times, we must think safety first, legal consequences after. All replies are appreciated. Thanks.

The phrase "bringing a knife to a gun fight" comes to mind here...there is safety in numbers...normally that alone is a sufficient deterrent...criminals want easy...and holding a gun on a large group is anything but that...I think a knife gives a false sense of security and may lead to a decision which may have a not-so-good outcome IMHO.

[kpinole]

Unlike the "bad guys", I can't walk around on the streets w/ a loaded gun, so I figure a knife and pepper spray is better than nothing. Obviously if I have a gun drawn on me, I'm assuming it's loaded and would not bother trying to pull out my pocket knife or pepper spray.

We usually bring a few guys to escort people, but this is a very high-crime city where a few criminals have held up large groups of people on several occasions recently, and these are just people I know. I'm sure if I looked through the crimes sections of the local paper, there are likely more incidents that I do not know of. I actually do not like the idea of UOC or open carry in general, as I feel like its just asking for trouble.

[waitwha?]

I'm not asking these q's so that I can UOC on a regular basis.....I don't like to bring attention to myself. There are times I must visit friends and family in bad parts of town, where there's little parking and often people, ladies, and/or families need to be escorted to their car...think "safety in numbers". I always carry pepper spray, and sometimes a small foldable pocket knife. These days, folks are getting robbed at gunpoint in their driveways just coming home from work. At times, we must think safety first, legal consequences after. All replies are appreciated. Thanks.

If its really that dangerous in your area that there is a high risk of getting robbed on your driveway and women must be escorted at all times then maybe you should consider moving out of the area. Having an unloaded weapon exposed to the public seems like it will only lead to you getting shot and your gun stolen or you drawing an unloaded firearm on a person who is already pointing a loaded firearm at you.

[kpinole]

I don't live in this area, I just have friends and family that do. Thanks to all for your opinions! I will NOT be UOC'ing and will just stick with "safety in numbers" as we have in the past. I purposely asked the q's in this forum as I was expecting STRONG opinions and I certainly got them. Thanks to all for taking the time to respond.

[inbox485]

I hate to say it, but if you're playing odds of something bad happening either legally or violently, odd are in favor of dirty carry. I'm not suggesting you do that (or carry at all), but just weighing the odds, I rank the risk vs rewards in this order from good idea to bad idea:

- CCW with license
- CCW with restraining order (the RO exceptions can come down to jury opinion - consider carefully)
- CCW without a license (asking for trouble - don't)
- UOC (can be legal, but still asking for trouble)
- LOC (just begging for trouble)

Edit: Per a PM from Retired, I want to re-iterate that I do not advocate any illegal carry. My only point was that under some circumstances, legal forms of carry can be an even worse idea than some illegal forms IMO. In other words do none of the ones in red. Sorry if that was confusing to anybody.

[sfpcservice]

I'm not an LEO or an attorney, but I just wanted to state an observation hopefully to benefit the OP:

UOC is inherently dangerous legally speaking. You are asking very basic questions about concealment that you should already know the answer to before you consider UOC. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to point out that you are about to head down a double black diamond slope of gun carry and you're still asking how to stop on skis.

A few places to start before you make your run:

12025-12027PC
12031 PC
626.9PC
626.95PC

Forgive me if you already understand these and that was the last thing you needed cleared up, but if not; know the above laws from memory before you even think about UOC. That is not a complete list, but it's a good place to start. That is my best "un-professional", "non-lawyer", "you're on your own" advice. Respectfully, Good luck and carry wisely!