Armed security carrying in community center?

[waitwha?]

To premise, I work as a park ranger for a local municipality. Yesterday, I received a call about armed (ie sidearms) private security at a community center which is a local government building. Not to say anything about security guards, but the staff reported that they were feeling uneasy as the security guards were staring at patrons and had their hands on their firearms the entire time. By the time I had arrived, their meeting had ended and they had left.

I did some brief research but didn't find anything conclusive. Is it legal for private security guards to carry firearms into government run community centers?

[Zdiddy]

Did they pick up money?

[waitwha?]

Did they pick up money?

Nop. They were not of the armored car type. As far as I could ascertain from the staff, they drove one of those "patrol cars" that private security drive and were there for a home owners association meeting that was at the center. From the security tapes, one looked to be a staff sergeant and the other one a gunnery sergeant of their security firm.

[pullnshoot25]

Re: Armed security carrying in community center?

I believe it is.

[waitwha?]

I believe it is.

Do you have any legal documents or personal experience to support this? Just curious as private security guards have no jurisdiction outside of their private property correct? So how would that be different than any other normal person bringing a firearm to the center?

[SoCalDep]

It's not really an issue of jurisdiction as they don't have any...It's an issue of being able to legally carry a firearm within the scope and duties of their employment. If they have a guard card with firearm endorsement, are working within their duties, and are not otherwise prohibited from having a firearm at the location I don't see anything illegal about it...Of course I can't really say for sure as I don't know their duties, scope, or reason for being there, nor am I aware of the particular ordinances or policies of the building.

[Ron-Solo]

If they are properly credentialed, and were hired by someone with authority to do so, then they would be legal.

f they just showed up on their own, then no.

Too many variables to give you a firm answer.

[waitwha?]

They presumably were hired by the HOA to guard their gated community. The HOA rents out a room at the government owned and operated community center to host their monthly meetings. I believe the security guards were there to attend the meeting and were not guarding anything at the time.

[waitwha?]

If they are properly credentialed, and were hired by someone with authority to do so, then they would be legal.

f they just showed up on their own, then no.

Too many variables to give you a firm answer.

I understand that its a difficult question to answer. Regardless since they were making the other patrons uncomfortable, would it be legal to ask them to leave their firearms in their vehicles or to leave the facility?

[MP301]

I understand that its a difficult question to answer. Regardless since they were making the other patrons uncomfortable, would it be legal to ask them to leave their firearms in their vehicles or to leave the facility?

IF they had a legal reason to be there, then asking them to leave their firearms in their vehicle would be a no go. Not only that, it's just silly.

If people are uncomfortable about guns, that is their problem. Being uncomfortable about uniformed people with guns is just stupid.

If they were "putting their hands on their guns" as was reported to you, that issue can be addressed easily enough by contacting their employer if you really think that was the case. But it sounds more like someone was just offended by their presence or the presence of those always evil guns more then anything else. Ask them to demostrate to you what exactly they saw and Ill bet you get a better picture.

Obviously the HOA was expecting trouble and did the right thing by having a deterent in attendance. I dont see a problem with this at all. Do you?

Take the opportunity to educate people wetting down their leg at the presence of firearms every chance you get!

[Bizcuits]

Nop. They were not of the armored car type. As far as I could ascertain from the staff, they drove one of those "patrol cars" that private security drive and were there for a home owners association meeting that was at the center.

Which means they were paid and in the course of their duties. Odds are the community center rented out the center to the HOA, in turn the HOA wanted their private security present for the meeting and was paying them. It is legal for armed security to carry an exposed firearm on duty, if they are in the course of their duties and have the proper licenses on them.

In fact, armed security are also permitted to carry their firearms to and from work, exposed and in a holster, as long as they are in uniform. They however are not permitted to stop anywhere inbetween.

For the best confirmation, contact BSIS and ask.

[Ron-Solo]

I understand that its a difficult question to answer. Regardless since they were making the other patrons uncomfortable, would it be legal to ask them to leave their firearms in their vehicles or to leave the facility?

That would depend on who is responsible for the community center. If the HOA rented out the center, they are responsible for the safety and security of the meeting. Oftentimes, renters are required to hire security as part of the rental agreement.

When we were looking at places for my daughter to get married, many of the places required us to hire security also as a condition of the rental. It is required even more often if alcohol is being served.

FYI, when I'm in uniform in a crowd, i will frequently have my hand on my gun. It's not an intimidation thing. It is all about weapons retention. I usually lock my thumb into a position where they can't break the snap loose. I'm not gripping the gun itself in a 'draw' position, merely resting my hand in the area between the belt and the retention strap.

If you are not the responsible party for the event, it would be totally inappropriate for you to ask them to leave or secure their weapons. If you feel like they were intentionally trying to intimidate people, take it up with the HOA and the guards supervisors.

Telling them they have to leave will probably get you an invitation to go to the nearest exit without passing GO.

[CaptMike]

the question about private security in government buildings can be answered by walking into most Los Angeles County Government buildings. LA county has their own security force but they also contract through private security companies. I see armed private security in government buildings all the time. As was stated earlier, if they are working in some way shape or form, they are good to go.

[capo]

They were likely there in the scope of their duties making it completely legal to carry. Chances are, some lady got a little scared by the way they were standing. I'm sure they weren't standing there 'with their hands on the guns' in a position to pull the gun out of the holster. I've worked security, and you do a lot of standing around, and the back of the slide is sometimes a comfortable place to rest your hand/arm because you don't want to put your hands in your pockets. I'm sure a lot of LEO who've stood post somewhere or worked an event where they had to just stand there can vouch for that.

Probably not the best idea, but your hand tends to gravitate there naturally.

[waitwha?]

To follow up, per the HOA it seems that they were not guarding the meeting or anything for that matter and were simply there to attend the meeting. The HOA was only rented one room of the center and the issue was that the the security guards were mulling around the rest of the center thus making others in the center uncomfortable. Not sure whether or not there is a part of the rental contract that covers armed security but the center supervisor is checking with the local PD.