shooting tactics in vehicle

[eltee]

With a 100 yard gap (the length of a football field), the BG's will probably choose to flee vs. staying to engage you. Their typical goal is to escape, and they already have a 100 yard head start which is huge in a metro area. We have spotty air support, if at all so it will be ground only units for the most part. Let them flee, maybe follow from a safe distance, call in the cavalry.

If it was a driveby, your obligation may be to respond to that scene to render assistance and call in EMS, secure the area, protect people at the location, etc. As is typical with LE scenarios, the totality of circumstances + dept. policy + your personal level of experience and training will influence heavily the next move.

[Tallship]

I love some of these tactical questions on here. Realistically you're not going to be able to stop them. We're civilian police, were not manned or equipped to deal with warfare.

Maybe your department. I'd call in our SED armored assault vehicle with the turret mounted M240 Golf (I knew that thing was going to come in handy at some point).

[professorhard]

Hit em with the AT-4

[Samuelx]

Typically, specific LE tactics/responses/procedures are NOT going to be discussed on open forums. I don't know about this forum (since I'm still an FNG), but in general, it's not a good idea to do so...

That being said, situations like the one posed are dynamic/fluid and particular - there are no cookie cutter responses, just principles. E.g. I'm grabbing the biggest gun(s) I have and I'm gonna be calling for all my friends to be bringing their biggest gun(s) too, etal.

[misplacedpants]

I'd call gecko45 for an expert opinion on tactical engagements

Wow that guy is infamous hahahaha.

[jtmkinsd]

Typically, specific LE tactics/responses/procedures are NOT going to be discussed on open forums. I don't know about this forum (since I'm still an FNG), but in general, it's not a good idea to do so...

That being said, situations like the one posed are dynamic/fluid and particular - there are no cookie cutter responses, just principles. E.g. I'm grabbing the biggest gun(s) I have and I'm gonna be calling for all my friends to be bringing their biggest gun(s) too, etal.

Dang...I was hoping the next time I'm rolling with the homies and start poppin caps in the hood I'd know what yall are gonna do so's I can get away wit it

[jtmkinsd]

My crown victoria is the largest caliber weapon I take with me on patrol. If it comes to it, buckle up and ran them. There was a good video of this tactic being used by a game warned back east some where... with an well placed M4 head shot as a follow up.

I love some of these tactical questions on here. Realistically you're not going to be able to stop them. We're civilian police, were not manned or equipped to deal with warfare.

Anyone recall a tank rolling through the streets of San Diego??? Ya just can't plan for everything.

[PistolS&W]

if you have guys in the backseat of a car with assault weapons they are going to have alot of blind spots. if you were a real bad mofo you COULD run up on them from a blind spot and point blank shoot them. kind of like bunkering some one. also keep in mind that everyone in this vehicle is going to be temporarily deaf from shooting a rifle in such a small space. so as loud as you are running up on them they wont hear you.

but would anyone have the brass to do this? maybe a small number.

thats just one idea.

[PistolS&W]

Anyone recall a tank rolling through the streets of San Diego??? Ya just can't plan for everything.

yeah that thing drove over my X-step moms sisters van or some one in her family like that. i beleive it was right before it drove over a large RV or something.

[retired]

Typically, specific LE tactics/responses/procedures are NOT going to be discussed on open forums. I don't know about this forum (since I'm still an FNG), but in general, it's not a good idea to do so...

That being said, situations like the one posed are dynamic/fluid and particular - there are no cookie cutter responses, just principles. E.g. I'm grabbing the biggest gun(s) I have and I'm gonna be calling for all my friends to be bringing their biggest gun(s) too, etal.

Excellent post and you are correct; specific tactics shouldn't be discussed and they really haven't been by the leos here.

[PistolS&W]

Excellent post and you are correct; specific tactics shouldn't be discussed and they really haven't been by the leos here.

were talking like LEO's know something nobody else does... but yeah i agree every situation is highly unique.

[9mmepiphany]

were talking like LEO's know something nobody else does.

we know that nothing goes as we plan it and there is a very good chance that we could lose the engagement...but we do what has to be done anyway. so we look at things a little differently

[PistolS&W]

we know that nothing goes as we plan it and there is a very good chance that we could lose the engagement...but we do what has to be done anyway. so we look at things a little differently

how is that relivant. the point i was trying to make is if a LEO were to discuss particular tactics in a given situation it would probably be the same tactics as a non LEO. combat is combat... its not like if a LEO discussed a certain tactic that the cat would be out of the bag and the criminals would have info on them...

once shots are fired its man with gun VS. man with gun and tactics are all the same. unless theres an escape route in wich a LEO would run and call for backup and a normal guy would run and not call for backup. other then that its all the same.

[SoCalDep]

how is that relivant. the point i was trying to make is if a LEO were to discuss particular tactics in a given situation it would probably be the same tactics as a non LEO. combat is combat... its not like if a LEO discussed a certain tactic that the cat would be out of the bag and the criminals would have info on them...

once shots are fired its man with gun VS. man with gun and tactics are all the same. unless theres an escape route in wich a LEO would run and call for backup and a normal guy would run and not call for backup. other then that its all the same.

The tactics are not the same. There are certain tactics that are obviously going to overlap, but assuming LEO and non-LEO tactics are the same is like assuming patrol LEO and SWAT and Marine Platoon tactics and Navy SEAL tactics are all the same. The level of training, mindset, responsibility for the safety of your partners, the public, bystanders, environment, responsibility to engage vs. ability to retreat all combine to dictate tactics. These factors can and should result in a different response based on one's individual background, training, equipment, etc. It's not to say one is better than another but, particularly in the past several years, there has been much study and training into incidents in this area. How much active shooter training have most civilians done? Do they have radios? Vests? Shotguns with slugs? rifles? significant amount of extra ammo? If you can't answer these questions similarly to a law enforcement officer, why would you assume the tactics you use would be the same? I don't have the same equipment as my SEB (SWAT) team and I don't have the equipment of OD Delta so I don't plan to use the same tactics. I'd love to throw smoke, chuck a frag grenade or even better....A LAW should sufficiently deal with the situation but...Oh yea...I'm not military...I'm a cop...Different rules, different tactics.

[PistolS&W]

The tactics are not the same. There are certain tactics that are obviously going to overlap, but assuming LEO and non-LEO tactics are the same is like assuming patrol LEO and SWAT and Marine Platoon tactics and Navy SEAL tactics are all the same. The level of training, mindset, responsibility for the safety of your partners, the public, bystanders, environment, responsibility to engage vs. ability to retreat all combine to dictate tactics. These factors can and should result in a different response based on one's individual background, training, equipment, etc. It's not to say one is better than another but, particularly in the past several years, there has been much study and training into incidents in this area. How much active shooter training have most civilians done? Do they have radios? Vests? Shotguns with slugs? rifles? significant amount of extra ammo? If you can't answer these questions similarly to a law enforcement officer, why would you assume the tactics you use would be the same? I don't have the same equipment as my SED (SWAT) team and I don't have the equipment of OD Delta so I don't plan to use the same tactics. I'd love to throw smoke, chuck a frag grenade or even better....A LAW should sufficiently deal with the situation but...Oh yea...I'm not military...I'm a cop...Different rules, different tactics.

well a SWAT guy is going to act exactly the same as a patrol officer if faced with flying bullets wich this scenario is. they are going to try there best to not get hit while trying to drop the target as fast as possible while not killing anyone innocent.

now how do these vary from a civilian? if i was faced with a man shooting at me i would do the EXACT same thing.

now before bullets fly yes its totally different.. a swat guy might break into a house and throw flashbangs and be in full riot gear where as a patrol officer entering the same house might be in a vest and weilding only his pistol... but once shots are fired its all the same tactics... and if i were for some reason entering this same house and shots were fired.... same thing. use general combat tactics to stop your target as efficiently as possible.

and to answer your question yes i carry pretty similar gear to a patrol officer if the laws permit or in a SHTF scenario. because i will require the same exact tools as they would in a given situation.