CHP Officer Mark Saylor

[masameet]

Based on sources close to the investigation, he did everything he could to stop the vehicle. Everything mentioned and more was attempted but obviously did not work.

Thank you, Mike.

Today I found (of all places) a Detroit Free Press article on the crash that answers some questions. Here are a few highlights from the story ...

Unknown to the Saylors, another customer of Bob Baker Lexus had been in the same car a few days earlier when it began to accelerate for unknown reasons.

Frank Bernard was passing a truck on a San Diego freeway and when he took his foot off the pedal, the car kept increasing speed until it hit 85 m.p.h.

Bernard told investigators that he stepped on the brakes and smacked the gas pedal to stop the car, with little effect. The brakes finally slowed the sedan to about 30 m.p.h., when Bernard steered to the shoulder and shifted into neutral as the engine kept surging.

After he pulled over, Bernard reached down and saw the pedal was stuck in a groove in the mat. He told the dealership about it, but investigators say the complaint was never relayed to the dealership employees who prepare loaner vehicles.

The dealership told employees to use only the mats made for each specific vehicle, following Toyota's first recall in 2007 for pedal-trapping mats.

But again, for reasons unknown, the mat in the ES 350 was actually for a Lexus RX 400h SUV. San Diego County sheriff's investigators later photographed the same type of mat in another ES 350, showing how it could catch the bottom lip of the accelerator pedal in one of its grooves.

After the crash -- which involved the Lexus speeding through an intersection at more than 100 m.p.h., hitting an embankment, going airborne and catching fire -- investigators found the driver's floor mat loose in the footwell, with part of the accelerator pedal melted into it.

Several witnesses in other cars along the freeway told investigators that when they first saw the Lexus south of the crash site, it was moving slowly or nearly stopped along the edge of the road, with its emergency flashers on. One said she saw a puff of smoke come from the front of the car. Witnesses reported that several seconds later, the Lexus flew past them toward the end of the highway.

And even though several witnesses said the car's brakes were on fire in the moments before the crash, another said it didn't have brake lights on.

Like Saylor's (2006) Lexus, the ES 350 (his 2009 loaner) had a push-button starter that had to be held down for three seconds to shut the car off, a fact buried in the owner's manual.

The story includes a photo of the Lexus post-crash.

[Roadrunner]

Has anyone considered just turning off the engine with the key? Quite frankly, that's what I've considered doing in a situation like that.

[retired]

Has anyone considered just turning off the engine with the key? Quite frankly, that's what I've considered doing in a situation like that.

As was stated by masameet, some of these cars evidently have a pushbutton to stop the engine. My son has a BMW 328i and it is set up the same way. You stick a key fob (it looks like one, not like a typical key) into a slot. You then push the start/stop button above it and the engine starts. It stops by pushing the button, then removing the key.

I haven't tried it, because: 1. It's not my car and 2. Even if it was, I wouldn't want to test it and damage something; $$$.

Now, if I was in a car that was set up like the lexus with a similar system; yes, I would try to remove the key, but I don't know if that works. As was stated by masameet, the manual stated the button has to be pushed down for 3 seconds to stop the engine; no mention of the key being removed stopping it.

Someone will probably provide that info after reading this I imagine.

[Cokebottle]

is this in the drive by wire system only ?

Correct. The electronic throttle was needed to support the "crank hold" feature. Rather than having to hold the key until the engine starts, you can simply "tap" the key to the start position and release it. The computer will crank the engine for up to either 15 or 30 seconds while you put on your seatbelt, stow the Starbucks, etc....
My '03 Tundra had the crank hold, wife's '04 Rav4 does not.
My '08 4-Runner company car had it.

I believe so. All others use Pedal linkage to the intake throttle body which has a sensor called the mass air flow sensor sending a signal to the ECU like 95% of cars made since the 80's and until recently

Mass airflow is on every engine... you're thinking of the TPS, Throttle Position Sensor. The TPS is still there on the fly-by-wire engines though, as it provides feedback to the ECU to confirm that the throttle servo has moved to the correct position.

This problem could be anywhere in the system... the pedal sending unit, the throttle servo, the TPS, or a software glitch in the ECU.


BTW: It's apparently not the pedal sending unit... or the recall didn't fix it if it is. There have already been two reports of uncontrolled acceleration on post-recalled vehicles.

[DVLDOC]

I'm glad I saw this thread, my car was just recalled by Toyota and I have an appt. this Friday to get it taken care of. But all they stated in the recall letter was just regarding the gas pedal and the floor mats. Now i'm worried that they might just F*** around with my vehicle and actually screw up something that was not broken to start with.

[justaguy]

Has anyone considered just turning off the engine with the key? Quite frankly, that's what I've considered doing in a situation like that.

No key is involved, just a "fob" which must be in proximate ..

Shutting off the car involves pressing the engine start button and holding it for 3 seconds (I own one).

I have absolutely no idea why shifting into neutral wouldn't work.

I'm baffled why that didn't work in this crash (if the driver did attempt that).

[Steyrlp10]

I'm also watching the news on this, especially because of the tragedies involved, but my kid has a 2009 Corolla. At the time, I thought it was one of the safest things I could put him in since he didn't want a truck. Now, he's been back to the dealership twice since the recall started.

I've had two family members die unnecessarily in a car wreck and feel for these poor people.

[retired]

My son updated me: The engine has to be off on his BMW to be able to pull the key fob out and even then he has to push the fob in first, then pull it out.

He has a stick and he said if his ever did that and nothing else worked, he'd try to put it in reverse to try to stop it and apply the E brake. I don't know if that would work on his car, but I do know it works on at least one car from the 1950s. I was driving my 1956 Chevy Bel Air back in the late 1960s, when one of my dumb buddies sitting next to me thought it'd be really cool to shove the shifter into reverse while going 45.

It was almost like hitting a brick wall. We stopped real fast.

[Aces and 8s]

Sad so sad...... You know with his level of training in EVOC if he could not stop that car no one could. I still believe it's the computer NOT the floor mats or the pedal.

Maybe its because I am an auto mechanic but heres what I would do.

Shift to nuetral, turn car off, emergency brake to slow.

Now if done right the wheel wont lock up, but you will loose the power steering and assisted brakes but at least you would not be speeding down the street in a completely out of control vehicle. The brakes would still work to an extent and you ease the emergency brake on so you do not lock up the wheels.